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Old 06-24-2018, 06:01 AM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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Default ES2 retrofit or Anthem SL

I started reading last night after pondering about the added cost of shipping both ways to get my W10 retrofitted with the ES2. I read several posts of people replacing the ES system with the the LR Baggs Anthem SL. How much better of a pickup system is it versus the the ES2? I will be playing my guitar mostly in a loud band situation but also on Sunday’s at church. $200 for shipping(both ways combined) could be well spent somewhere else!!
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Old 06-24-2018, 06:37 AM
Beagle1 Beagle1 is offline
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Does the W10 currently have any kind of pickup installed other than the K&k you mentioned in your other thread? If not, then if it were me personally I would not want to put holes in it by installing the ES2.

I have an Anthem SL installed in one of my Martins. I like it overall - pretty natural sound and no issues with feedback at loud band volumes. I feel it does require a few EQ tweaks to make it sound it’s best. Also, some people report that the Element undersaddle pickup part of the Anthem has an impact on the acoustic tone/volume of the instrument. I’ve never had that issue personally, but as always , YMMV.

Maybe also check out the Barbera Soloist pickup for your guitar. Pretty natural tone for a pickup, good at loud volumes and very little impact on the guitar in terms of the install.
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Old 06-24-2018, 06:52 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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In my experience, the Anthem SL can have an overly strong frequency response near the "crossover" frequency of 250Hz. (At that frequency, it appears that both the UST and the mic are picking up plenty of signal.) If you can tame it with some decently flexible EQ, however, its hard to find a better analog pickup.

I use a Zoom A3 with my Anthem SL rig. In addition to having a six band graphic EQ and a two band parametric EQ which can be used in series, the A3 has an additional basic three band EQ which can be used for "quick and dirty" adjustments at the gig.
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:34 AM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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It only has the K&k In it. I run an Ultrasound Di plus with it. Even using a feedback buster in the soundhole, I would get horrible feedback when I took my guitar off and put it on the stand to just sing. It would have to be muted through the system to stop it. I don’t have a lot of extra money to spend on preamps and pedals, so I’m looking for the best and most simple active pickup that just works. I know I’m limiting myself, but I can’t get past the look of sound hole mounted pickups, so those are out. I’m not super knowledgeable in the electronics area of acoustic guitars plugged in, so I’m looking to you experienced folks to point me in the right direction. That Barbera soloist does look pretty cool, but I’ve never heard it mentioned much.
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:57 AM
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DenverSteve DenverSteve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnfiddler View Post
It only has the K&k In it. I run an Ultrasound Di plus with it. Even using a feedback buster in the soundhole, I would get horrible feedback when I took my guitar off and put it on the stand to just sing. .....
Changing pickup systems won't help the feedback issue is you're putting the guitar in the path of the speakers or monitor where it is picking up the feedback. Mute the guitar prior to taking it off - whether singing or going on break. Issue solved. I do that prior to tuning, putting it on the stand, changing guitars etc. to eliminate any noise from the transfer anyway. That way feedback is never an issue. Or try this.........

guitar.jpg

Last edited by DenverSteve; 06-24-2018 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:19 AM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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Originally Posted by DenverSteve View Post
Changing pickup systems won't help the feedback issue is you're putting the guitar in the path of the speakers or monitor where it is picking up the feedback. Mute the guitar prior to taking it off - whether singing or going on break. Issue solved. I do that prior to tuning, putting it on the stand, changing guitars etc. to eliminate any noise from the transfer anyway. That way feedback is never an issue. Or try this.........

Attachment 10131
When it was off-body wasn’t the only time it was doing it. That’s when it was the worst. I’m gonna try it again at practice this week and see if we can get it all figured out.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:22 AM
ManyMartinMan ManyMartinMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Tnfiddler View Post
When it was off-body wasn’t the only time it was doing it. That’s when it was the worst. I’m gonna try it again at practice this week and see if we can get it all figured out.
What does the practice area look like. Sometimes it's just too small to avoid feedback. If it's not the room size, it's the monitor/speaker/pa placement relative to the guitar. K&K's feedback far less than many other pickup systems.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:30 AM
Beagle1 Beagle1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnfiddler View Post
It only has the K&k In it. I run an Ultrasound Di plus with it. Even using a feedback buster in the soundhole, I would get horrible feedback when I took my guitar off and put it on the stand to just sing. It would have to be muted through the system to stop it. I don’t have a lot of extra money to spend on preamps and pedals, so I’m looking for the best and most simple active pickup that just works. I know I’m limiting myself, but I can’t get past the look of sound hole mounted pickups, so those are out. I’m not super knowledgeable in the electronics area of acoustic guitars plugged in, so I’m looking to you experienced folks to point me in the right direction. That Barbera soloist does look pretty cool, but I’ve never heard it mentioned much.
I have a K&K in one of my guitars. I always find it sounds decent at low volumes but is prone to feedback at higher volumes. It also benefits greatly from a dedicated preamp with phase reversal capability and some corrective EQ. It would be my last choice to use in a band, although some people seem to be very happy running their K&K systems through a Tone Dexter if you wanted to go that route.

You don’t hear much about Barbera but a number of pros like Pierre Bensusan and Richard Smith use them. Also first-rate luthiers such as Kirk Sand and Buscarino are installing the Barberas in their guitars. The pickups are a little pricey but again minimally invasive to the guitar and they provide a strong output signal so you could use them without an internal preamp. On the other hand, you might like the Anthem, it’s definitely one of the better systems out there IMHO.
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Old 06-24-2018, 10:06 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnfiddler View Post
It only has the K&k In it. I run an Ultrasound Di plus with it. Even using a feedback buster in the soundhole, I would get horrible feedback when I took my guitar off and put it on the stand to just sing. It would have to be muted through the system to stop it. I don’t have a lot of extra money to spend on preamps and pedals, so I’m looking for the best and most simple active pickup that just works. I know I’m limiting myself, but I can’t get past the look of sound hole mounted pickups, so those are out. I’m not super knowledgeable in the electronics area of acoustic guitars plugged in, so I’m looking to you experienced folks to point me in the right direction. That Barbera soloist does look pretty cool, but I’ve never heard it mentioned much.
The Barbera Soloist is a passive pickup (you say you want an active system), so you'd need to get something like a Shatten Design Player Preamp for an active onboard system. It also has adjustable gain, something which will be very helpful with the Soloist's strong output.

http://schattendesign.com/player_preamp.htm

Personally, I'd rather get an outboard preamp which can be used with multiple guitars. I was able to get an old (1st generation) Fishman Platinum Pro EQ off ebay for $70 (if cost is an issue). There are a few of them (priced crazy cheap) on ebay right now.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fishman-Pro...ty!44109!US!-1


I recently pulled a Barbera Soloist out of one of my guitars because it isn't very compatible with my ToneDexter preamp (in my opinion). It is highly feedback resistant, however, and it sounds better (raw) than most undersaddle pickups.

One caveat is that the lead wire is rather delicate. (My luthier complained about that and spliced a thicker piece of lead onto it for the connection to the strap-jack. I had to remove the spliced piece to pull the pickup out of the guitar, but the remaining lead length is more than sufficient for any guitar.)

I'll be selling the Soloist cheap, but you'd need someone who's good with a soldering iron to deal with it effectively. You'd also likely need to shim it for a proper height in the saddle slot - and a 1/8" saddle slot is required.
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:37 AM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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I think I’m just gonna hang on and when my 810 with the Matrix Infinity is out of the shop, use it and keep the W10 like it is for church. I REALLY like the sound and playability of the W10 better, but it’ll save money and hassle just to switch guitars and roll with it. I can always have it in on-hand as a back-up if necessary. I never thought I’d have to deal with this because I thought my 810 was unbeatable sound/playability-wise, but the W10 is a hands down better guitar.
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Old 06-24-2018, 12:43 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnfiddler View Post
I think I’m just gonna hang on and when my 810 with the Matrix Infinity is out of the shop, use it and keep the W10 like it is for church. I REALLY like the sound and playability of the W10 better, but it’ll save money and hassle just to switch guitars and roll with it. I can always have it in on-hand as a back-up if necessary. I never thought I’d have to deal with this because I thought my 810 was unbeatable sound/playability-wise, but the W10 is a hands down better guitar.
A ToneDexter would likely work well with both your guitars. At $399 it isn't cheap but can work with many guitars and is a good preamp.
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Old 06-24-2018, 01:20 PM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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A ToneDexter would likely work well with both your guitars. At $399 it isn't cheap but can work with many guitars and is a good preamp.
I’ve been looking at the Play Acoustic since I’m the lead singer of our band. How does it compare to the tonedexter?
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Old 06-24-2018, 01:32 PM
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The Barbera pickup is an excellent choice for guitars with non compensated bridge saddles not for guitars with compensated saddles. Since most guitars come with compensated bridge saddles Barbera needs to sell a compensated version.
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Old 06-24-2018, 02:56 PM
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I don't own the ES2 but have tried it numerous times. I did have the Anthem SL in my Taylor for a short time. In my opinion, the SL always had a bit too much of a hollow/thin tone to it. I made adjustments but I could never get enough warmth/bass out of it. I really want to try the full Anthem some day. Baggs employees have said that the SL tends to have a clearer tone with a bit more headroom which on paper seems great but I think it lacks a little warmth as a result. Just my opinion.

The ES2 is really nice but I found it to be a bit inconsistent. It does have the adjustment screws though. personally I would try the full anthem. The retrofit is a bit pricey and you are then having to screw into the bridge. At least the anthem can be pulled out easily.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:30 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnfiddler View Post
I’ve been looking at the Play Acoustic since I’m the lead singer of our band. How does it compare to the tonedexter?
I don't have a TC Helicon PlayAcoustic but have the TC Helicon VoiceLive 2. I also have a ToneDexter. The TC Helicon products are good but the ToneDexter sets the stage for the TC products or other geegaws in a signal chain to do their thing. I suggest going with the ToneDexter first and then step off into the ether from there if you still feel you must do so ...
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