Difference between recording room and console room acoustics?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by DarkestDreaming

Thanks Doug. My treatment guy is adamant on not using cloth for rockwool, insisting that it is carcinogenic unless covered with drywall.

I understand the concern, but I don't see how that will help your acoustics. That might help keep sound from transmitting thru the walls, but it won't absorb sound or prevent reflections. You could build a membrane-style bass trap that does have a hard cover over the absorptive material, but it wouldn't be drywall - that won't vibrate enough. Very thin plywood would work. But for acoustic guitar, I don't know that you need that kind of bass trap.

There's lots of information in books and online about building bass traps. I'd do some research.

I am deciding between buying the costlier foam bass traps and making one like yours. Did you draw a scheme before building yours? It will come in handy for me

No, I just wing it. Really simple, some wood strips screwed into the wall on each side of the fiberglass. Stick the fiberglass in, place cloth over it, and screw on a pair of nice looking wood trim pieces to lock in the fiberglass and cloth cover.

If you're not a do-it-yourselfer, I'd suggest checking out these guys:

http://www.gikacoustics.com/

You don't have to go crazy with this stuff. Try a little treatment around your mixing location (a few of these GIK panels), and see how it sounds. Then put up a couple of panels where you will be sitting to record. Then go from there.

Have you checked out the info at Fran's site?:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/

Ethan Winer's intro:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Also lots of info on his commercial site:

http://www.realtraps.com/

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by DarkestDreaming

Thanks Doug. My treatment guy is adamant on not using cloth for rockwool, insisting that it is carcinogenic unless covered with drywall.

I am deciding between buying the costlier foam bass traps and making one like yours. Did you draw a scheme before building yours? It will come in handy for me

You might do a bit of research and try to determine if there's any factual basis for your guy's concern. You could start by asking him for published research that confirms his contentions.

http://www.icanz.org.au/pdf/Tech-Glasswool-Rockwool.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_wool
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass-...rs-review.html

These broadband absorber panels work by attenuating the airflow stimulated by sound waves. They must be exposed to airflow to have the desired effect.

Fran

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

You might do a bit of research and try to determine if there's any factual basis for your guy's concern.

I'm also wondering what your "treatment guy'" background is. Is this a general construction person? They probably think that "sound treatment" is so-called "sound proofing", trying to keep sound in and out of a room. This is what 99% of the world means - all the non-musicians! - by sound treatment. Acoustic treatment for recording is very different and much too specialized for a general contractor to know about, in all likelihood. There are people who specialize in acoustic treatment, but they won't be cheap, much more costly than buying some ready-made panels and hanging them with a picture hook.

There are a few different ways to approach getting acoustic treatment done

1 Hire someone who's an expert to construct it
2 Do it yourself
3 Buy ready-made panels from someone like GIK

Option 2 is the cheapest, option 1 is way, way more costly. If you're not a hammer and nail kind of guy and don't have lots of money to throw at it, I'd rule out approach 1 and 2. These days, ready-made panels are cheap, simple, and look good. If these things had existed when I built my studio, I'd have probably bought them, and I could have spent 6 months playing guitar instead of being a construction crew! I did buy and am using 4 real traps, which was my only choice back then. But they cost 4X what the GIK and other newer panels now cost, so DIY was more attractive.

You asked what I'd do differently now, and actually, I'd probably just buy a bunch of panels and get back to playing and recording.

[DarkestDreaming]

I've already suspected that he is more of a soundproof kinda guy. Though he deals with musical instruments and commisions sound treatment work for smaller rehearsal studios, a lot of what he says seems contrary to concentional wisdom. Such as:

1. He disagrees with my need for bass traps in a small room
2. He wants to cover the entire wall surface with acoustic foam
3. Not once did he ask my placement of speakers, or what is my primary use of the room

I essentially want to just do my research and pass him the specs so he can just do it as i envision, but in all likelihood, if I can find another person to do it who agrees more with my rationale (there aren't many sound treatment gius here), find acoustic materials of price within reason, or build the **** thing myself once i figure out the right thing for the room I would just do it. I haven't checked, but i think GIK and Realtraps don't ship to Asia

I am still trying to find what I need to do for my small room of about 12x8. Thus far i've decided bass traps on four corners, acoustic foam on early reflection points for my monitors(wall, floor, ceiling) and treatment of the back wall. Any additional help will be greatly appreciated

[moon]

Originally Posted by DarkestDreaming

Thus far i've decided bass traps on four corners, acoustic foam on early reflection points for my monitors(wall, floor, ceiling) and treatment of the back wall. Any additional help will be greatly appreciated

That sounds good

Note that some mineral wool uses formaldehyde in the binder and that is carcinogenic.

It's (probably) not much of a problem when the material is used for insulation behind drywall or other materials which restrict evaporation into the living space, but obviously a permeable fabric cover will not provide any kind of barrier. I suspect this could be an issue with a large number of panels in a small room but I don't know enough to be certain.

Knauf do a formaldehyde-free material and possibly there are other options from other manufacturers.

[KevWind]

[QUOTE=DarkestDreaming;3093096]
1. He disagrees with my need for bass traps in a small room
2. He wants to cover the entire wall surface with acoustic foam
3. Not once did he ask my placement of speakers, or what is my primary use of the room
Honestly , This seems to me to be a great description of someone who doesn't actually know squat about room acoustics

I haven't checked, but i think GIK and Realtraps don't ship to Asia

email GIK they may ship overseas.

I am still trying to find what I need to do for my small room of about 12x8. Thus far i've decided bass traps on four corners, acoustic foam on early reflection points for my monitors(wall, floor, ceiling) and treatment of the back wall. Any additional help will be greatly appreciated

Your on the right track, but just know that foam is considered by most pro acoustic studio designers, to be of little effectiveness. Most use Owens Corning 703 or rock wool , for both bass traps and primary reflection points. With the bass traps being thicker. Or if your worried about environmental issues. You can use Ultra Touch recycled cotton denim insulation except it is not as dense as 703. Therefore you would have to use more of it thickness wise, or try to compress it thickness wise , especially in such a small room

[DarkestDreaming]

Kev,
I have contacted Glenn from GIK, I'll see what his response is.

I am personally leaning towards building the bass traps within the wall corner like Doug's studio, and also a large frame of Rockwool insulation at the backwall, supported by a sofa bed there as well.

Early reflection points i am treating with foam though. Recording guitars in the room, I would probably have my back near the backwall and use some gobos for the mic. Maybe a rug at the bottom and foam at the top. Was wondering if somebody who has a similar setup can advise on this