MIDI Keyboard

Brent Hutto · #1 10-09-2011, 04:32 PM

What do you do with a MIDI keyboard? ]

When people make a recording and there's a bass or piano part backing up their guitar playing, I'll see a comment like "I added some MIDI parts..." so was that done by playing on a MID keyboard controller?

I'm asking because sometimes I'd love to put a simple bass line under a recording of myself. Can that be done with a little 25-key or 49-key controller?

alexevans917 · #2 10-09-2011, 04:42 PM

It definitely can! Midi is basically just a way of transmitting electronic data. So you hit a key on the controller, and it triggers a sound within a computerized synthesizer. They're really easy to setup, and after you have recorded a part, you can edit it on the computer really easily and change the sound of the instrument, quantize the notes, even change the volumes of individual notes. Whatever software you use to record (with the exception of Audacity and some other free software like that) should come with some pretty rudimentary software instruments (like strings, piano, bass, horns, drums, etc.).
Any keyboard with MIDI jacks on the back can be used as a MIDI controller, if you buy a MIDI to USB cable (they're like $30-40). Since 61-key Yamahas and Casio's sell for less than $50 used, this could be a very cheap option. Of course, the nicer controllers have nicer features (weighted keys, transport controls for record, play, stop, fast-forward, rewind, etc., knobs and faders for controlling software effects, and pads for recording drum parts). Unless you're recording piano parts, you should be fine with a 25, 37, or 49 key controller. M Audio and Akai both make some great controllers. If you are recording piano parts, you'll probably need 49 keys minimum. 61 keys would be fine, and 88 would be awesome, as that's the size of a normal piano keyboard.

moon · #3 10-09-2011, 05:32 PM

Make sure you get something velocity-sensitive. I've got an Emu Xboard 61 which I like. Decent "feel" and lots of knobs you can assign to DAW controls if you want to - handy for mixing or to tweak soft synth parameters without touching the mouse.

Lots of other similar keyboards you can pick up cheap on ebay. Make sure you get something velocity sensitive (almost all of them will be). You need that to get a bit of expression into a riff.

For bass lines, smaller keyboards are fine but, if you want to take up keyboard playing as well as guitar, get one with at least 61 keys. Note that 88 key keyboards will have a heavy piano action which is a little harder to play.

There's a nice upright bass which comes with the free Kontakt player (I think it's in the factory selection). It can sound great with acoustic guitar. Maybe not so much when I'm playing it but here's a sample anyway. (Shh don't tell Alohachris...

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Brent Hutto · #4 10-09-2011, 05:41 PM

Thanks guys, cool stuff.

That MIDI bass line sounded quite nice to me. Does a "bass" instrument like that respond to the key velocity? Can you make notes louder and softer by how hard you press the key?

I'll have to give this a try some time soon.

moon · #5 10-09-2011, 05:48 PM

Yeah - and more. Some samples have subtle changes in voicing at different dynamics. For example, the Kontakt upright bass changes sound when you hit it hard in quite a realistic way. I'll post a clip later of the bass on its own so you can hear it better.

If you play guitar you'll already have an idea of scales and rythmn so bass lines will be fairly easy to pick out. Before you know it you'll be adding piano parts, strings, and all sorts. The guitar is a fantastic instrument, but a keyboard and some good sample libraries give you access to an entire orchestra to play with. If you've got any songwriting or composer genes a keyboard will help to bring them out.

Brent Hutto · #6 10-09-2011, 05:54 PM

At one point in my life I could hold my own on a piano keyboard...but that was a few decades ago. Still, using a keyboard like that and playing smoothly and in time is still second nature as long as I don't have to play too fast or play with heavy left-right-hand independence (no Bach for me!).

I play a lot of fiddle tunes on mandolin. Often the sheet music will have chords to accompany each tune. What I'd really like to do is chords in rhythm or very simple arpeggio patterns. Or for that matter playing the bass notes under a tune adds hugely IMO.

Would something like this in a 61-key controller meet all the basic requirements?

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...ation61es.html

I'm tempted to try and stay under $100 for a 49-key one but there are some used and refurb deals out there on the M-Audio with 61 keys for not much more than that. And it would be nice to get both hands involved down the road I suppose...

alexevans917 · #7 10-09-2011, 06:13 PM

I think the keystation 61 would be a great choice. It's a simple good piece of gear. If you get more into MIDI you could add a second board (the Akai MPK49 comes to mind) to get transport controls, pads and faders. For all basic MIDI stuff though, the Keystation is a great value.

moon · #8 10-09-2011, 06:58 PM

This would be better if you want some knobs to twiddle. You can assign these for example to faders in your DAW which can be nice. Not essential though.

The Xboard has aftertouch if that sounds interesting. I've never actually turned mine on but it could be used for big strings chords to control volume or etc.

Here's a clip of the Kontakt upright bass on its own. It's great fun

There's something about an upright bass...

Brent Hutto · #9 10-10-2011, 12:17 PM

Well, I'm going to give it a try.

After seriously considering that 61-key M-Audio one (which I found B-stock for as low as $120, shipped) I checked out the measurements and it's just too big and unwieldy to store away and bring out for occasional use in my music room. And too darned white, to be honest about it.

So I am going with a 49-key controller since four octaves at a time seems plenty to me.

Here's the one I picked, it's a Roland/Boss/Cakewalk brand one rather than M-Audio or Alesis. Supposed to have real nice key action and there was a sale at Musicians Friend bringing it in just over $150, shipped. Plus a "free" pair of cheap headphones...Woo-Hoo!

Here's the page with specifications and so forth. I've not done complete "due diligence" to find out if the included virtual instruments are usable with Reaper or only work within the included "Sonar LE".

http://www.roland.com/products/en/A-500S/

moon · #10 10-10-2011, 12:34 PM

Looks good

Virtual synths and samplers will either work as stand-alone programs or VST plugins (or sometimes both). You should be fine.

KevWind · #11 10-10-2011, 03:49 PM

Midi Keybords seem to be getting better and better for the price. When I got mine about 5 or 6 yrs back it was I believe at about $300
I chose the Edirol PCR 80 not sure about the model number, being a 36 key machine.
I am starting to use it more and more mostly to bring in orchestral sounds.

Brent Hutto · #12 10-14-2011, 04:38 AM

Got the Roland late yesterday evening and managed to get drivers and Cakewalk software installed before bed time. So this morning I figured out how to record a simple bass line in Reaper then play it back in the headphones while I record a tune into the microphone.

Here's the result:

http://soundcloud.com/brent-hutto/new-midi-keyboard

Definitely sounds like 6am but as a proof of concept it worked out well. I just keyed in the bass note on every other beat, using Reaper's metronome. Then went into the MIDI editor and clicked "Quantize" to put the notes right on the beat. Opened an audio track and played. Set levels and rendered to a WAV file. Not bad.

Unfortunately the little netbook computer I use for recording is not up to running VSTi virtual instruments. So I have to use my real computer with the keyboard. Still, if I can learn to play some simple piano chords I'll have some nice play-along tracks of my own creation. Cool.

moon · #13 10-14-2011, 06:29 AM

I've got this image in my head of you leaping out of bed as soon as you woke up, like it's Xmas morning and there are new toys waiting...

I think a simple bass line is just right for that piece. In fact that's usually the case. As a guitarist, you're programmed to do more intricate stuff but a bass can be really simple by comparison - just pick out the rythmn.

moon · #14 10-14-2011, 01:23 PM

PS: would you like a copy of Proteus VX? It's an older version but comes with a ton of samples including their Studio Grand piano, bodhran, and Celtic Harp which could sound good in the kind of music you were playing. It came bundled with my own keyboard but I can't get it to run on Linux. Most windows software can be made to work using Wine or Virtualbox but not this one.

Brent Hutto · #15 10-14-2011, 01:31 PM

I've actually been casting about for a decent grand piano sound, the stuff in the Cakewalk package was mostly tinkly or electric sounding pianos. We ought to come to some kind of arrangement.

For the time being having a bass line either gets me where I want to be or gets me 90% of the way there. All with the one note! That particular tune, unrecognizable in its slow bodged-up form, is actually a Brenda Stubbert tune from Cape Breton. As a long-term project I'd love to teach myself that bouncy boom-cha-boom-cha piano style they use up there to accompany a fiddler at dances. But regional styles aside a lot of the tunes I like need nothing more than a fiddle with some sort of foundation under it like an acoustic bass sound.

P.S. Hey wait a minute. I've got a couple CD's full of software that came with my E-MU 0404 USB. Proteus VX may be in there for all I know, the discs are still in the shrinkwrap as I was set on Reaper when I bought the interface. Gotta check when we get home from work tonight...