Exhaustive ToneDexter Experiment

[buzzardwhiskey]

I very carefully trained my K&K equipped Martin CEO7 using a Miktek PM5 in the four suggested mic positions described on the ToneDexter web site.

And then for each wavemap I recorded a short piece 5 times using:
1) 100%, Ch2
2) 100%, Ch0
3) 80%
4) 60%
5) 33%

Down under: 6” out and 6” down from the bottom hollow of the guitar, point the mic up at where the picking hand is.


Up top: The mirror image of down under, on the upper (bass) side.


Neck joint: 10” – 15” away in the front, pointing straight at the place where the body meets the neck.


Over nut: 12-15” directly above the nut, pointed back at the sound hole.

[Petty1818]

Excellent work! It's interesting how the mic positions can yield such different results. I almost feel as though the best plan of attack would be to set aside an hour, record 8-10 different wavemaps with the mic in different positions and then just figure out which is best. My main issue right now is that all of my good condenser mics are the larger style for vocals. I only have a cheap MXL pencil condenser and an SM-57. I really want to try the SM81 but it's a lot to drop on a mic that I will simply use for training.

[Brent Hahn]

Lot of variation! My favorite is neck joint/33%.

[tadol]

Thats great work - it shows just how hard it is to record an acoustic guitar - many of those sound great, and could easily be used for different songs or tones. It also shows how by adjusting the position of a mic it can really influence the wavemap - a worthy experiment! Thanks for posting!

[Cellomangler]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I really want to try the SM81 but it's a lot to drop on a mic that I will simply use for training.

Not having a small diameter condenser myself, my best Tonedexter training employing my mic collection has been with an Audix SPX25 - a superb mic for acoustic guitar and piano... but I have also gotten excellent wavemaps from an inexpensive omnidirectional lavalier mic, the Movo LV-6.

[mondoslug]

Wow, great job & thanks for posting. Bravo you.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

My main issue right now is that all of my good condenser mics are the larger style for vocals. I only have a cheap MXL pencil condenser and an SM-57. I really want to try the SM81 but it's a lot to drop on a mic that I will simply use for training.

I would highly recommend the iSK Pearl. You can search for reviews and the consensus is that the price ($29) is a fraction of its value:

https://www.iskproaudio.com/products/pearl

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Excellent work! It's interesting how the mic positions can yield such different results. I almost feel as though the best plan of attack would be to set aside an hour, record 8-10 different wavemaps with the mic in different positions and then just figure out which is best. My main issue right now is that all of my good condenser mics are the larger style for vocals. I only have a cheap MXL pencil condenser and an SM-57. I really want to try the SM81 but it's a lot to drop on a mic that I will simply use for training.

Hi P1818

Microphones can be borrowed, and/or rented.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi P1818

Microphones can be borrowed, and/or rented.

For sure. The major chain here in Canada, "Long & Mcquade" rent out mics, it's more so the fact of finding time to get the mic and bring it back. The closest location is about an hour away. Still, that is a good option.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Excellent work! It's interesting how the mic positions can yield such different results. I almost feel as though the best plan of attack would be to set aside an hour, record 8-10 different wavemaps with the mic in different positions and then just figure out which is best. My main issue right now is that all of my good condenser mics are the larger style for vocals. I only have a cheap MXL pencil condenser and an SM-57. I really want to try the SM81 but it's a lot to drop on a mic that I will simply use for training.

Your LD condenser should work fine. Many people prefer them anyway, and especially for this purpose, I doubt you'd notice a big difference just between LD and SD. Everything affects results, placement, the mic, etc, but it's not guaranteed what will actually work better with your guitar. Personally, I've used all kinds of mics with ToneDexter and results have been good with everything, even an SM57. I usually use the neck/joint placement regardless of the mic, but you can tweak the sound a bit with minor placement changes. You'd probably make greater changes in results just from moving the mic than from a small difference like an LD vs an SD.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I usually use the neck/joint placement regardless of the mic...

Doug,

Can you give us some specifics on this? How far away, how you angle the mic, etc.?

Thanks.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

Doug,

Can you give us some specifics on this? How far away, how you angle the mic, etc.?

Thanks.

I'm not all that organized or consistent with it. I just did a big retraining exercise, re-doing 8 guitars, and just used a Gefell M300 on a desk stand, so I could train sitting at the computer. I'd start with the mic about 8-10 inches away, aimed at the neck/body joint. The mic is slightly lower than the guitar, so aiming up a bit - but that's more of an accident than any plan.

My process is to have the ToneDexter's output into my computer interface, so I train, save, then record a few seconds with TD with the various character settings and listen back - so I'm not fooled by hearing some of the direct acoustic sound. If I dont like it, move the mic a few inches and try again. Most guitars were good the 1st take. With a couple I thought I could get something better and either backed-up, pulled my chair forward, or moved the mic a little.

While there's definitely a difference with mic placements, and mics, it seems to me to be far less than when you're recording and hearing the actual mics

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

My process is to have the ToneDexter's output into my computer interface, so I train, save, then record a few seconds with TD with the various character settings and listen back - so I'm not fooled by hearing some of the direct acoustic sound.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

[SpruceTop]

David, Thanks for your time and effort in bringing your comparison demos to us!