Musicality

[davidbeinct]

How does one develop it? I can play John Miller’s transcription of Mississippi John Hurt’s Spike Drivers Blues, which sounds quite faithful to the video of MJH playing it that’s included with the course material. I can only play it comfortably at 90-100 bpm and start falling apart at about 110. MJH plays it at about 160. I’m sure with work I can get there. I thought that was my big problem.
Yesterday, however, I watched a video of Dave Van Ronck playing Spike Drivers. He was playing it around 90-100 bpm. He started around 90 and was around 100 by the end. Never got faster than that. He was playing a very similar version to the one I’m working on. Yet he sounded so musical and I... don’t. I realize he’s got years of playing compared to my one (minus the false start in my twenties) but we’re essentially playing the same notes. How can I work on my musicality, separate from working on my speed?

[Brent Hahn]

Hard to say without hearing you, but if there's a je ne sais quois that you think is eluding you, it might be groove. Time. Pocket.

There's a thread in the Recording forum right now where there's a comparison between a studio version and a live version of the same song. See if the difference in feel between the two strikes you as being similar to what you're sensing about your playing.

If it's not, never mind :-)

[Willie_D]

Are you practicing with a metronome?

Musicality comes with relaxation. When you're more relaxed and not trying so hard, you'll start to feel the groove and swing.

Don't worry about speed. Speed will come later. Relax and focus on grooving.

[reeve21]

Originally Posted by davidbeinct

How does one develop it? I can play John Miller’s transcription of Mississippi John Hurt’s Spike Drivers Blues, which sounds quite faithful to the video of MJH playing it that’s included with the course material. I can only play it comfortably at 90-100 bpm and start falling apart at about 110. MJH plays it at about 160. I’m sure with work I can get there. I thought that was my big problem.
Yesterday, however, I watched a video of Dave Van Ronck playing Spike Drivers. He was playing it around 90-100 bpm. He started around 90 and was around 100 by the end. Never got faster than that. He was playing a very similar version to the one I’m working on. Yet he sounded so musical and I... don’t. I realize he’s got years of playing compared to my one (minus the false start in my twenties) but we’re essentially playing the same notes. How can I work on my musicality, separate from working on my speed?

David,

I think what you are looking for is sometimes called "groove."

MJH grooved at 200 plus bpm on some tunes, while singing and playing a melody line that would weave in and out of the vocal melody. I don't think we hobbyists can or should aspire to that. I've been doing a deep dive on his stuff for the last 9 months, and have had to work hard to convince myself that it sounds much better (especially without vocals) at the slower tempos that I can play cleanly.

To answer your question, try setting your metronome and/or tapping your foot on beats 2 and 4. I heard this from Eric Skye and David Hamburger, 2 very musical players. That may help you develop your groove, or at least point out that it's not grooving just yet .

Edit: I see that Brent and Willie beat me to it while I was typing!

[NormanKliman]

(quoting Gary Davis) "It's the bass you touch that makes it roll."

Play the thumb pattern without any other fingers and notice that, to make it sound playful, you probably play a little harder on the second and fourth beats, and you might use damping, too.

Also, if a certain part can be played with just your thumb (especially on the emphasized second and fourth beats), try it like that, without any other fingers. I mean specific moments and not as a general approach.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by davidbeinct

How does one develop it? I can play John Miller’s transcription of Mississippi John Hurt’s Spike Drivers Blues, which sounds quite faithful to the video of MJH playing it that’s included with the course material. I can only play it comfortably at 90-100 bpm and start falling apart at about 110. MJH plays it at about 160. I’m sure with work I can get there. I thought that was my big problem.
Yesterday, however, I watched a video of Dave Van Ronck playing Spike Drivers. He was playing it around 90-100 bpm. He started around 90 and was around 100 by the end. Never got faster than that. He was playing a very similar version to the one I’m working on. Yet he sounded so musical and I... don’t. I realize he’s got years of playing compared to my one (minus the false start in my twenties) but we’re essentially playing the same notes. How can I work on my musicality, separate from working on my speed?

David,
The big difference is that Dave Van Ronk was trying to play a song the way he heard it in his head.

You’re trying be what you heard someone else play.

What do YOU sound like? That’s the place where you’ll find your musicality.

You can do it.

Howard Emerson

[Mr. Jelly]

Forget speed or whatever. Play it how you feel it. If you don't feel it you probably shouldn't be playing it. Making music is not the art of mimicking somebody. Though many think so. Truth be told they don't make music.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by davidbeinct

How does one develop it? I can play John Miller’s transcription of Mississippi John Hurt’s Spike Drivers Blues, which sounds quite faithful to the video of MJH playing it that’s included with the course material. I can only play it comfortably at 90-100 bpm and start falling apart at about 110. MJH plays it at about 160. I’m sure with work I can get there. I thought that was my big problem.
Yesterday, however, I watched a video of Dave Van Ronck playing Spike Drivers. He was playing it around 90-100 bpm. He started around 90 and was around 100 by the end. Never got faster than that. He was playing a very similar version to the one I’m working on. Yet he sounded so musical and I... don’t. I realize he’s got years of playing compared to my one (minus the false start in my twenties) but we’re essentially playing the same notes. How can I work on my musicality, separate from working on my speed?

Talking more about the guitar playing or the singing in your example?

That guitar part is pretty straight forward. Mainly need to keep a steady tempo going. In a fair percentage of solo guitar stuff where the melody is carried by the guitar attention to larger grouping of notes (i.e. phrasing) is important (volume control, timing variations, etc.). You can pick most of this up by lots of listening and emulating on what you have heard.

[DukeX]

Several posters have beat me to it.

It's the groove, the swing, the rhythm.

[TBman]

This is how I learn a tune:

1. I pick my fights carefully. I'll pick a tune that is in my sweet spot of tempo and within my playing ability. I'm 65 and I'm as good as I'm going to get.

2. I will learn the tune in super slow motion at first. Sometimes this is a long process, sometimes it isn't. If the tune is at the top edge of my abilities it takes a while. I will play along with the tune at this stage using software to slow the original tune down. This is really more about learning the tune mentally. There is rarely anything in the tunes I pick to play that I can't play.

3. Once I get the tune in my head I will practice it on my own without playing along and learn how I want to play it. Sometimes I will use the original ornamentation, often I'll add my own touches.

4. Lastly I will record the tune. If it doesn't sound right I will listen more to the original and play along with the tune at performance speed to see where and why I'm not getting it right. Sometimes in #3 I get too far from where the tune wants to be - my interpretation/timing is off. Usually though I don't get to this stage if it doesn't sound right musically.

So in the above there is a lot of listening and a lot of playing. I have found that although I can play most tunes within a week or so (or less), having them being worth listening to takes longer. Lately I have found that giving a tune a month or more of playing is best. There's no short cut for me.

[SprintBob]

To add to the excellent suggestions above, my teacher always tells me to hum or sing (out loud or in your head) the melody notes. This can help connect you to the groove you are trying to capture or create.

[rllink]

My attitude has always been to play a song how you feel it, not how someone else does.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by rllink

My attitude has always been to play a song how you feel it, not how someone else does.

"How you feel it" is great but it has a limit, and that limit is when you bring in other players.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by davidbeinct

How does one develop it? How can I work on my musicality, separate from working on my speed?

Well that is a question I frequently ask myself and I think the answer has to lie in what goes through my head as I play and really I need to be playing the music in my imagination then following that silent lead with the instrument.

[rllink]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

"How you feel it" is great but it has a limit, and that limit is when you bring in other players.

You are right.