Does my Guild GAD F212 12 string need a repair?

[MilesWilley]

Hello.

I've taken a punt on an ebay purchase and am seeking advice on whether a repair is needed. Pics attached.

There is some bowing to the top. It's 10 years old and has hardly been played. The thing is beautiful and plays well right now with good low action and no intonation problems. I'm tuning low, but it arrived in standard tuning.

My concern is that it will need a repair, as the bridge looks to be lifting.

Is this normal and to be expected? Any views on if a repair is needed, or definitely will be needed? Any advice on actions I could take to help it now?

Many thanks! Miles

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by MilesWilley

....It's 10 years old and has hardly been played. The thing is beautiful and plays well right now with good low action and no intonation problems....

Welcome to the forum! Congrats on picking up one nice looking GAD 12-string! Love the burst!

Originally Posted by MilesWilley

My concern is that it will need a repair, as the bridge looks to be lifting..... Is this normal and to be expected? Any views on if a repair is needed, or definitely will be needed? Any advice on actions I could take to help it now?

I'm more a player than a tech, so my advice ain't worth much. I know Glenn over at letstalkguild might recommend a bridge doctor, which is designed to bring the top back to its original flatness, so that's something to look into. It's probably a good idea to take it to a local luthier or repair tech and see what they have to say after an in-hand inspection. The good news is that it's got good low action right now. Made to be Played!

[MilesWilley]

Hello Mr Cougar! Thank you so much for taking the time to reply - really appreciate that.

I could probably be categorised as a player rather than tech, too. If only I could play....

I'm in that tricky moment with the seller, who is a nice guy and totally reasonable, where we're trying to work out whether this amount of bow is just normal and nothing to be worried about. Or whether it's unusual, and should really be dead flat?

I could do with any views on whether all acoustics have this type of bow, or whether it's lifted??

Yep - I def need to get to a luthier - not quite so easy with lockdowns etc around here.

I've also seen mixed reports on Bridge Doctors. I'll check out LTG now.

Big thanks!

[BudHa]

Miles, I have a new Guild F512 and a 1990 Guild JF30-12. Guild 12 strings and most other acoustic guitars will have some amount of a belly behind the bridge. I would recommend you take the guitar to a qualified tech or luthier and have a setup performed on the guitar. In performing a setup problems will be identified and solutions offered.

When you say the bridge is lifting, can you slip a piece of paper partially under the bridge? Can you post of side shot picture of the bridge and saddle showing the strings parallel to the top?

Also, there is lots of good information on this site and the Let's Talk Guild site to help you assess your guitar if you choose to not take it to a luthier for assessment.

[MilesWilley]

Thank you Budha - much appreciated. All signs are I need to get to a luthier, but it really helps me and the seller to get a feel for how unusual or serious this is. In my hert I want it to be no big deal!

here's a few more pics. Not great quality - give me instructions and I'll try again if need be!

Yes, you can get a piece of paper under a tiny area of the bridge, as shown. It's tiny - when I said the bridge is lifting, I meant that the angle of the bridge isn't quite parallel with the top.

Cheers! Miles

[MilesWilley]

...and here's the paper-under-bridge tiny area pic....

[BudHa]

Miles, I am posting a link to Frets.com. There is a self help instruction for checking neck angle which I think will help you be able to perform some level of assessment of your guitar. Frets.com has lots of technical information about acoustic guitars. Your pictures aren't real clear as to the height and pitch of the saddle. The saddle seems to be low (shaved) and leaning forward a little... but that may just be my take on the pictures.

Again, I really am no expert. I regularly ask for help on guitar technical issues. I think some folks, as DCCougar said earlier, will recommend a bridge doctor for your guitar. I have no experience with a bridge doctor but I think I understand how they work. With all that said, I still think you need a luthier.

[MilesWilley]

Great stuff - many thanks Mr BudHa for giving this your time.

[BudHa]

Miles, here are links to information about the bridge doctor.


https://www.jldguitar.net/warped_tops/fixtop.html

https://www.jldguitar.net/install/pininstall.html

[mtdmind]

If it plays and sounds good I think you should not worry much about it. The arching across the guitar looks pretty normal. The dip along the length looks like it might be a bit dry. Just put some wet sponges in a perforated plastic bag and keep it in your case .that will help humidity it. The little bit of lift might have been there a while. Nothing to worry about. Just make sure it is not getting worse. Lifting bridge is easy to fix should it need it. Play it and enjoy it now.

[phavriluk]

Looks gorgeous. I suggest OP take the guitar to a professional for an inspection and setup. For sure, 12-strings need all the help they can get.

Speaking for myself, I want nothing whatever to do with any Bridge Doctor. I regard such nostrums as abominations.

[Musician Friend]

Hello Miles , Nice Guitar you have there! You say it has a low action , stays in tune, Correct intonation , A slight Bow on the top And a Minor tilt on the bridge.
I have owned and still own Acoustic guitars new and old.
All have some bow due to tension added with truss rod adjustments and string tension, And with age and depending on the how thin your top and the wood used to build your guitar with will bow more over time.
We as guitar player seek the best sound and tone possible and some sacrifices will be made to achieve it. you say you love this guitar and playability is unaffected I suggest to treat it as a instrument and play it not as a pet and stroke it.
consider is the cost of your guitar to any major repair work not especially needed.
Read up on information provided from the internet before attempting and general maintenance. I have looked at your photos and would suggest rehydrating the inside of your guitar you can purchase hide glue and clamp down your bridge it looks ok more than 95% fixed to the guitar top. Try adjusting your dual action trust rod slightly at a time and leave over a couple of days to see any effect before adjusting again to relive any no needed tension tension.I personal think we all have the ability to set up a guitar to play the way we want it to with out paying out lots of cash.

Guitars as you know a under a lot of different stresses. The neck block is rotating from the string pull on the neck. There is also a rotational force to the bridge from the strings. Here there is are coupled forces , one of the strings pulling on the bridge , another of the ball ends pulling up and one of the strings pushing down on the saddle.
This along with the compressive forces between the neck block and bridge will often cause a visible dip in the top. This is normal as long as the the deformation is not to extreme ,and from what I can see of the pictures , I don't think you are in trouble.
The doming behind the bridge is common and to be expected as the bridge is trying to rotate the top will belly. When your guitar dries out the top starts to shrink and you will see the top , behind the bridge sink and that can be a warning sign. Since you are not reporting of corduroy on the top or sharp edge frets your guitar is fine but I am just guessing as I am not examining it in hand.

have seen people disturbed over a "sunken top" when they're looking at the wrong thing. They use a short (12" or so) straight edge from the peak of the dome behind the bridge to the edge of the guitar. They see a small gap near the outer edge of the guitar and think the top is concave. However, what they should be doing is using a longer straightedge that spans the entire lower bought of the guitar. If that straightedge touches both edges of the guitar and the center of the top directly behind the bridge is below the straightedge, then there is a problem.

[BradHall]

My first guitar repair was an old Alvarez 12 string. I read about the bridge doctor and installed one. What a mistake! Completely killed the tone. I ripped it out and did my first neck reset. Returned the guitar to a fairly good sounding instrument. Looking at your pics and description of the playability, I would echo what others have said. Play it , enjoy it, and monitor the bridge gap.

[Musician Friend]

P.S

unnecessary repair or replacement work on the guitar will only devalue it.

Not all the prettiest guitars in the shop are the best players!

Happy Days !