figuring out what key a tune/song is in

[Retired1]

I made up this approach to figuring out what key a piece is in - pretty basic but it works for me - sometimes takes too long when playing along with the radio - so I'm wondering if there's an easier way to do it. What I do is listen to the music and then start playing the melody on the high E string looking for where the notes are 3 frets apart, then finding on the 5th string where the notes are also directly under the 6th and 3 frets apart, if the tune is in a major key it's the key played with a barred E chord on the upper of the 3 notes on the 2 strings or a minor chord if on the lower pair of the 3 notes when playing the barred E chord. Hope this makes sense. Curious how others find the correct key.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Retired1

I made up this approach to figuring out what key a piece is in - pretty basic but it works for me - sometimes takes too long when playing along with the radio - so I'm wondering if there's an easier way to do it. What I do is listen to the music and then start playing the melody on the high E string looking for where the notes are 3 frets apart, then finding on the 5th string where the notes are also directly under the 6th and 3 frets apart, if the tune is in a major key it's the key played with a barred E chord on the upper of the 3 notes on the 2 strings or a minor chord if on the lower pair of the 3 notes when playing the barred E chord. Hope this makes sense. Curious how others find the correct key.

Read a few times and did not follow that.

For me:
What chord the piece ends on is often the tonic chord.
Next step would be the prominent chords played and looking for
what key the I-IV-V would fit into.

That usually does it for a lot of pieces. However it gets more
complex after that with possible chord substitutions, key changes
within the tune, etc.

[stanron]

I can see how the 'three notes apart' thing could show the key either major or minor, but it seems a little clumsy to me. Usually the key is where the tune seems to end or 'come to rest' at the end of the song. Often it can be at the end of a verse, although a verse can also end on chord V, followed by chord I at the start of the next verse or chorus. Chord I will be the key.

Technically this is called a 'perfect cadence' and has a very distinctive sound. Verses can start on chord IV but this also has a distinctive sound. Getting used to how these chord patterns sound helps in stuff like identifying keys and also working out chord sequences. It's a skill that develops with use. Give it time.

[NormanKliman]

I don’t understand the system you’ve described. You’re probably on to something but I don’t know what you mean. Posting a tab might help.

Originally Posted by Retired1

Curious how others find the correct key.

If you’re talking about learning from recordings, you have to be sure your guitar is in tune with the recording. What I mean is that if the recording has been slowed or accelerated, it may not be immediately obvious.

So, with that in mind, my strategy is to listen for the lowest note on the sixth string and for open strings in slurs and with fretted notes (especially in unison). If I come up with some chords, I’ll go back and make sure that all the highest notes are possible with those chords (when I think there’s one guitar and no overdubs). It’s all about listening for clues in the form of familiar sounds, and, as one of those you’ll-know-it-when-you-hear-it kind of things, the more you do it, the easier it gets.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by NormanKliman

I don’t understand the system you’ve described. You’re probably on to something but I don’t know what you mean. Posting a tab might help.

If you’re talking about learning from recordings, you have to be sure your guitar is in tune with the recording. What I mean is that if the recording has been slowed or accelerated, it may not be immediately obvious.

So, with that in mind, my strategy is to listen for the lowest note on the sixth string and for open strings in slurs and with fretted notes (especially in unison). If I come up with some chords, I’ll go back and make sure that all the highest notes are possible with those chords (when I think there’s one guitar and no overdubs). It’s all about listening for clues in the form of familiar sounds, and, as one of those you’ll-know-it-when-you-hear-it kind of things, the more you do it, the easier it gets.

That sounds like a way to find the correct tuning.

[NormanKliman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

That sounds like a way to find the correct tuning.

Post has to have at least 10 words, so: yes.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by NormanKliman

Post has to have at least 10 words, so: yes.

Just making sure as OP question was about finding the key a tune was played in.
P.S. somewhat less than 10 words needed

[stanron]

Originally Posted by Retired1

looking for where the notes are 3 frets apart

The way I looked at this is that the last three notes of a major scale, and the first three notes of the minor scale cover three frets. All the other three note intervals, between the two roots, are four frets. Of course note seven to note two of a rising major scale is also three frets with the root in the middle, so it's not always going to work. Going by what sounds to be the 'at rest' point is my preferred approach.

[reeve21]

In a lot of pop/rock tunes the first and/or last chord of chorus or verse is the key of the song.

I'll mess around on my low E string until I find the root note of that chord, then I'll try a couple of bar chord shapes to try and hit on the whole chord.

If it is a I, IV, V progression or some variation of that I can usually pick it up pretty quick. If there are other chords in there I'll try the minor second and minor sixth. If its more complicated than that it's probably not something I'm going to pick up by ear real quick, so at that point I'll go looking on the internet for it.

It's a little tougher for me on the bridge.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Retired1

I made up this approach to figuring out what key a piece is in - pretty basic but it works for me - sometimes takes too long when playing along with the radio - so I'm wondering if there's an easier way to do it. What I do is listen to the music and then start playing the melody on the high E string looking for where the notes are 3 frets apart, then finding on the 5th string where the notes are also directly under the 6th and 3 frets apart, if the tune is in a major key it's the key played with a barred E chord on the upper of the 3 notes on the 2 strings or a minor chord if on the lower pair of the 3 notes when playing the barred E chord. Hope this makes sense. Curious how others find the correct key.

Hi R1

I listen to the bass, and the chords. As soon as I identify the I chord (i chord) that's generally the key.

[Mr. Jelly]

With the song playing I usually start playing a single note on the guitar where my ear tells me it might be. From there I'll usually search a little bit to find a note that sounds like it fits everything going on. Kind of a drone note. Then I'll start playing some lead lines in either a major or minor pentatonic scale, depending on what me ear tells me might work best. Most times it works pretty fast. I've used this on stage when I have been in a situation where I don't know the song or material.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Retired1

I made up this approach to figuring out what key a piece is in - pretty basic but it works for me - sometimes takes too long when playing along with the radio - so I'm wondering if there's an easier way to do it. What I do is listen to the music and then start playing the melody on the high E string looking for where the notes are 3 frets apart, then finding on the 5th string where the notes are also directly under the 6th and 3 frets apart, if the tune is in a major key it's the key played with a barred E chord on the upper of the 3 notes on the 2 strings or a minor chord if on the lower pair of the 3 notes when playing the barred E chord. Hope this makes sense. Curious how others find the correct key.

I don't follow this at all.

The way I do it involves some cheating (you might say).

Firstly, I'm not too worried about the key as such. I just want to learn the song. You can play a song accurately in every detail and still not know the "key". Some songs are not in a key, some don't even have a tonal centre. IOW, identifying a key is a theoretical judgement about the notes and chords you are hearing.
If you were to notate the music, you wouldn't need to write down the key; you'd just write down the chords and the notes. Of course, you'd probably use a "key signature", but that's just a bunch of sharps and flats indicating a kind of foundation "scale" or average set of notes in the piece.

Of course, I'm being pedantic! Usually, once I start trying to play along with a track I form a very quick conclusion about the key, based on the first couple of chords usually. (I.e., I still don't have to know the key, but my theoretical knowledge kicks in anyway.)

Anyway... Secondly (here's the cheat) I use software to help me listen. YouTube can be slowed down of course, but transcription software allows all kinds of manipulation of the audio, making it more user-friendly. https://www.seventhstring.com/xscribe/screenshots.html
After getting a rough idea of likely key and chords by playing along (normal speed and pitch), I use the software to raise the octave. This makes the bass much clearer, which generally confirms chord roots.
Then I'll be listening for chord quality (major, minor, etc), and identifying melody notes. Here I might use the software to slow down, or to loop a short section. The software also helps by displaying pitch frequencies against a piano keyboard - i.e., it tells me what thinks the notes are, and even what it thinks the chord is at that point. I don't necessarily trust it, I always check by ear.

As I say, this is really all about learning the song. Not about "finding the key". The pedantry matters, because even when you can identify a keynote or key chord - by listening for the "home" chord, the stable "tonal centre" - that's still only a rough guide for what other notes and chords the song will contain. You still have to go through it all and check everything.

[FrankHudson]

I don't think I have a very good ear, but when I used to play with songs on the radio or the like I would start by guessing it was likely one of the "guitarist's favorite keys" like A C D E or G and then adjusting in case a capo or a more advanced guitarist snuck one in there. If the notes are sour you're not in the right key and you move to another one and soon enough it should seem "right."

Usually in a verse/chorus or so I could fake at least some accompaniment. Unless I was dealing with a jazz tune with lots of modulations or advanced harmony. The way a great deal of common harmony movement progresses is more predicable that you might expect. Even with my bad knowledge of theory and a less than stellar ear, you can start to expect the next chord pretty fast for a lot of things.

[rllink]

Lately I've been learning pentatonic scales and their corresponding boxes until they are coming out my ears. If I'm listening to a song and I want to play along I just start playing those boxes and moving up the neck until one fits. Then decide if it is a minor or a major and that's it. If I'm playing in a box that's off key, it is pretty obvious. Not so much of it is a minor or major key, but it will manifest itself eventually. That has been working well for me, as I'm supposed to be playing to backing tracks and I would rather just play to songs I hear.

[geelinus]

Dang! Ya'll sure do a lot of work. I just look for the music online.