Saddle/shim

dgeorge · #1 10-10-2020, 03:34 PM

I am thinking my saddle is just a little low so I bought the Saddle Shim Veneer kit from Bob Colosi. Would just placing the shim in the bridge slot without glueing it to the saddle give me a fair representation of how things will sound once it is glued? Also is leaving it unglued ok if I am happy with the height and sound? Lastly does the glue add more thickness to the shim? Like if I do a dry run and I am happy with the height will I have to sand it down a little if I glue it?
Thanks in advance for any input you can give me!!!!

D-utim · #2 10-10-2020, 04:28 PM

Does the kit come with instructions?

EZYPIKINS · #3 10-10-2020, 05:56 PM

oh no don't glue it. You're better off to get a new saddle and cut from scratch. They're not very expensive. Get two or three. Wont take log to figure it out.

Rev Roy · #4 10-10-2020, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgeorge

I am thinking my saddle is just a little low so I bought the Saddle Shim Veneer kit from Bob Colosi. Would just placing the shim in the bridge slot without glueing it to the saddle give me a fair representation of how things will sound once it is glued? Also is leaving it unglued ok if I am happy with the height and sound? Lastly does the glue add more thickness to the shim? Like if I do a dry run and I am happy with the height will I have to sand it down a little if I glue it?
Thanks in advance for any input you can give me!!!!

I’m sure Bob would be happy to answer these questions. He’s a great guy and very responsive to emails.

TBman · #5 10-10-2020, 06:01 PM

I have Bob's kit and used a shim in one of my guitars. I didn't bother to glue it to the saddle.

RonMay · #6 10-10-2020, 06:46 PM

I believe you're always better off getting a new saddle.
To me, a shim just makes one more substance for the vibrations to go through.

Direct contact of the bridge and saddle is the best.

Ron

rick-slo · #7 10-10-2020, 07:12 PM

No problem with a thin hardwood shim (FWIW I have used other materials such as folded over copier paper with no sound detriment) and given
that a shim is more practical than sizing and shaping a new saddle which is I guess a more of a purist thing. Definitely do not glue the shim into
the slot though.

Willie_D · #8 10-10-2020, 07:32 PM

People have used crazy things to shim saddles in the past. Guitar strings, strips of credit card, picks, the foil from a stick of Big Red. Just pop it in there. If you like the sound and the action, you're good to go.

At some point you might fit a new saddle but you're not exactly flirting with tonal disaster here.

JayBee1404 · #9 10-11-2020, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Definitely do not glue the shim into
the slot though.

The OP asked if he should glue the shim to the bottom of the saddle, not the bottom of the slot. But you’re absolutely correct - don’t glue it in the slot!

If the shim is intended as a permanent or semi-permanent mod, then the best results are gained by glueing the shim to the bottom of the saddle with CA. No need to take the thickness of the glue-layer into account - it is so thin as to be of little or no consequence. I had a Martin J-40 with a saddle which was shimmed some time around 2005 and which sounded sensational. When I sold it in 2008, it still sounded sensational. The shim was glued to the saddle.

If the shim is temporary - e.g. if you’re trying to work out how tall a new saddle would need to be - no need to glue.

I have one of Bob Colosi’s Ebony shim kits, and I’ve shimmed two or three saddles using CA. Absolutely no detriment to tone whatsoever, in fact the reverse was true - the resulting taller action height improved the tone (on two Martins and a Lowden). Bob’s kits do include instructions.

As others have said, a new, taller saddle is ideal. However, an Ebony or RW shim, properly glued to the bottom of the existing saddle, is no detriment and will perform perfectly well.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

dgeorge · #10 10-11-2020, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

The OP asked if he should glue the shim to the bottom of the saddle, not the bottom of the slot. But you’re absolutely correct - don’t glue it in the slot!

If the shim is intended as a permanent or semi-permanent mod, then the best results are gained by glueing the shim to the bottom of the saddle with CA. No need to take the thickness of the glue-layer into account - it is so thin as to be of little or no consequence. I had a Martin J-40 with a saddle which was shimmed some time around 2005 and which sounded sensational. When I sold it in 2008, it still sounded sensational. The shim was glued to the saddle.

If the shim is temporary - e.g. if you’re trying to work out how tall a new saddle would need to be - no need to glue.

I have one of Bob Colosi’s Ebony shim kits, and I’ve shimmed two or three saddles using CA. Absolutely no detriment to tone whatsoever, in fact the reverse was true - the resulting taller action height improved the tone (on two Martins and a Lowden). Bob’s kits do include instructions.

As others have said, a new, taller saddle is ideal. However, an Ebony or RW shim, properly glued to the bottom of the existing saddle, is no detriment and will perform perfectly well.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

Thanks so much for a though answer to my question!!!!

redir · #11 10-13-2020, 06:55 AM

I never bothered to glue shims to the bottom of the saddle. I do for the nut though. I don't think it's necessary at the saddle. But if that's what Bob recommends then why not?

No one on this planet would be able to tell in a blind test that a saddle has been shimmed or not. I suppose if you did some god awful job of it you might. I do agree that a new saddle is always best but shimming is cheaper and sometimes customers will go with that option. Also if it's a vintage saddle or one that is intonated perfectly then they choose a shim too. I typically use rosewood shims.

BTW if you have an UST then put the shims under the pickup. Or maybe that is a good case for gluing it to the saddle.

ArchtopLover · #12 10-14-2020, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redir

I never bothered to glue shims to the bottom of the saddle. I do for the nut though. I don't think it's necessary at the saddle. But if that's what Bob recommends then why not?

I have been using LMI's bone shims for a few years now and I really like how well they work. The real bone material is over-sized and the shims need to be cut and fitted (very easy with a fine toothed saw) to the nut or the saddle for each application. However, I always use CA glue to secure the shim to the bottom of the nut or saddle when I perform repairs, so that if the fit or height isn't the way I like it, the shim/nut or shim/saddle assembly can be easily sanded and tweaked to fit properly without having to fish the shim out of the bridge or nut slot each time an adjustment is made. Hope this helps.

dgeorge · #13 10-14-2020, 06:13 PM

Thanks to all who replied.
I am new to shaving a saddle and as luck would have it I got things really nice but decided to go just a little lower and things went bad! Now I did have a second saddle that I bought but as I worked on it the treble side was perfect but the bass side was too high. I have no clue how that happened unless it started out uneven. I had no way I felt confident with the just lower the bass side.
I am using Taylor micarta saddles so they are $20 a piece plus shipping and I knew the first one was just a hair off. So I got Bob Colosi's saddle shim veneer kit, glued a .020 shim to the bottom of the saddle, trimmed it up and all is well again and the guitar sounds great. Along the way I did but the old Tusq saddle back in and was reminded how much better the micarta sounds to my ear.
Thanks again to all!