Are all bolt-on necks equal? Taylor versus other brands

[John Arnold]

One thing I am trying to grasp regarding bolt on neck resetting is, how can the neck be reset if the fretboard is still glued to the body? It obviously would have to be unglued.

Not true.
As indicated in another post, once the bolt is removed you can slide sandpaper between the neck heel and the body.

I have done over 1400 dovetail neck resets. Disregarding drying time (from both the steaming and regluing), I have performed many, many resets in 45 minutes or less. I just did one on a brand new Martin D-28 Authentic 1937.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Not true.
As indicated in another post, once the bolt is removed you can slide sandpaper between the neck heel and the body. .

I don’t know how you manage to do that, I find the bolt typically (Martins as an example) is merely a device used to hold the neck in place whilst the glue sets around the tenon.

To get the neck tenon glue loose enough to be able to insert and drag sandpaper between the body and neck heel, I find you have to remove the fretboard extension from the guitar and compleltey remove the neck and clean the mess off first.

Steve

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by mirwa

I don’t know how you manage to do that, I find the bolt typically (Martins as an example) is merely a device used to hold the neck in place whilst the glue sets around the tenon.

To get the neck tenon glue loose enough to be able to insert and drag sandpaper between the body and neck heel, I find you have to remove the fretboard extension from the guitar and compleltey remove the neck and clean the mess off first.

Steve

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...ylorreset.html

[redir]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...ylorreset.html

Tha's the way I do it. Though I do find that interesting that he went from 5 only down to 4 32nd inch. I would have gone down to 3 but maybe there is enough saddle to adjust too. As I mentioned before in drastic cases it's better to take the neck off and shim the FB extension.

[OMsong]

I didn't really expect to hear too much about Lakewood, but I wonder has anyone had to reset a Breedlove? And was the pre-NT Taylor neck also patented like the new one? If not, then it would be fair game to copy it, right? So, they would be fairly similar?

And thanks for the pics of the disassembled necks. That's the stuff!

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by OMsong

I didn't really expect to hear too much about Lakewood

I cannot comment on current Lakewood neck joints, but what I can say is that back in the day I owned a Lakewood which underwent a fatal accident (involving slippery steps in winter in Massachusetts) and when the debris was collected, I was amazed to see that the neck had actually been butt-jointed ( with epoxy, I assume) to the body ... no bolts ... just a straight butt joint, That would be around 1999 btw.

David Russell Young also used an epoxied butt joint IIRC.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by OMsong

And thanks for the pics of the disassembled necks. That's the stuff!

Your welcome

Originally Posted by mirwa

I find the bolt typically (Martins as an example) is merely a device used to hold the neck in place whilst the glue sets around the tenon.

This is another picture, a Martin bolt on neck freshly removed.

The bolt is located at the bottom of the heel, it is more of an assembly bolt rather than an option for easy neck removal, its merely used to secure the neck whilst the abundance of titebond glue sets



I know of no Main stream manufacturer other than Taylor that has a full bolt on neck, many use the Martin style Bolt on and glue , which makes it impossible to simply remove the bolt slip in some sandpaper and reset the neck, it would be so cool if they did install such a feature

Steve

[redir]

I really don't understand why they would glue and bolt it. Kind of stupid really.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by redir

I really don't understand why they would glue and bolt it. Kind of stupid really.

Yep, agreed.

[John Arnold]

The Martin with a glued mortise and tenon joint is NOT a true bolt-on.

I know of no mainstream manufacturer other than Taylor that has a full bolt on neck

Collings also have a tenon, but it is not glued. Those can be reset with sandpaper.

I just did a sandpaper reset on another brand guitar with a true bolt-on, but I cannot remember the name.
Tacomas are another example.

[mirwa]

Collings also have a tenon, but it is not glued. Those can be reset with sandpaper.

I just did a sandpaper reset on another brand guitar with a true bolt-on, but I cannot remember the name.
Tacomas are another example.

Never done a Collins, is the extension glued or bolted as well, I’ve done Tacoma’s, they had a glued extension.

Steve

[redir]

Yeah the Martin's are not true bolt on, hence the glue, but all they need to do is just make it a true bolt on. Add one more bolt and just do it right IMHO.


I guess for those who do the tenon you would leave a bit of room behind it. The only time I use a tenon is for the Selmer style guitars that have a super thin heal. Otherwise I'm not sure what else it does besides complicate the joint. Does it help with twisting perhaps?

[John Arnold]

The extension is glued on a Collings. The only reason to remove the neck during a neck reset is to place a wedge shaped shim underneath the extension. Same with Tacoma.
IMHO, the reason to have a tenon is for strength. With more wood to anchor the bolts, the chance of a heel crack at the bolts is lessened. Collings inserts a maple dowel in the heel, which also adds strength. The screws thread into the dowel, and since it is cross-grain, it is stronger than threading into end grain.

Add one more bolt and just do it right IMHO.

One bolt is enough. In fact, a 1/4" bolt like those used by Taylor and Martin is way overkill, IMHO. I used a single 3/16" bolt (10-32 thread) on my bolt-ons (glued extension) and never had a problem.

I guess for those who do the tenon you would leave a bit of room behind it.

Yes. It's standard practice on dovetails and every straight tenon joint I have encountered.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by mirwa

I know of no Main stream manufacturer other than Taylor that has a full bolt on neck,

I think Bourgeois qualifies as a mainstream manufacturer.

Mike Baranik probably doesn't qualify as a mainstream manufacturer, but he also uses a full bolt-on system.

[OMsong]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

I cannot comment on current Lakewood neck joints, but what I can say is that back in the day I owned a Lakewood which underwent a fatal accident (involving slippery steps in winter in Massachusetts) and when the debris was collected, I was amazed to see that the neck had actually been butt-jointed ( with epoxy, I assume) to the body ... no bolts ... just a straight butt joint, That would be around 1999 btw.

David Russell Young also used an epoxied butt joint IIRC.

I read about the infamous "slipped on the stoop" incident. Sorry for your loss. That's a big reason this thread exists. But, since this is from the Lakewood I have in hand, it's safe to say this one's not like that. (This one's a 2003, and for the life of me I cannot figure out why a guitar with a spacing less than 2-1/4 at the saddle plays so easily, but it does. I guess playability is not just a matter of specs.)

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