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  #46  
Old 06-19-2013, 09:13 AM
Paikon Paikon is offline
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http://www.juststrings.com/toi-kr116...ProductReviews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FOcHnNFzbM
thats what are we talking about
maybe you will never use them but when you judge a product make sure you know what it is.

Last edited by Paikon; 06-19-2013 at 09:23 AM.
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  #47  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:23 PM
Garthman Garthman is offline
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Originally Posted by scottishrogue View Post
There is a lot of misinformation out there, but any classical guitar maker will tell you that under NO circumstance should you use ball-end nylons on a classical guitar with a tie bridge. If it were a good idea, there would be at least ONE professional "classical" guitarist that would be using them, but there isn't even one...and neither Willie Nelson nor Zack Brown qualify!!!

Ball-end nylon strings are NOT made for use on a classical guitar. They are for use on "Folk" guitars for a more mellow sound and "Parlor" guitars that either have a pin bridge or older guitars that have a tailpiece to anchor the strings. If used on a classical guitar, you will notice the break angle will be increased radically, to the point the bridge will either be ripped off, or create a dip in the soundboard.

The classical soundboard is usually considerably thinner than what you find on an acoustic guitar and has either lattice or fan bracing. My best classical guitar is a Bellucci Concert 640 which has a cedar soundboard with a thickness of only 2.5mm (ultra-thin) and my Martin 000C Nylon hybrid measures 3.5mm in thickness and even though it has X style bracing, it has a tie bridge. It is not unusual for ball-end nylons to have a steel core on the bass side wound strings and the treble side nylons are not top quality, and will often snap before you reach concert pitch. In addition, they are frequently high-tension strings. And, they will not stay in tune, either, from what I've heard.

If you wish to use the wrong strings on your classical guitar, nobody is going to stop you, including me. My only reason for providing this information is to enlighten people, before they ruin their instrument. That's how I roll!

Glen
I'm sorry but this is mostly nonsense. The tension that ball-end nylon strings exerts on the bridge is the same as a loop-end string (type for type, of course). A ball-end string is just a loop-end string that has a ball attached. That's it.
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  #48  
Old 06-19-2013, 02:56 PM
rustyAir rustyAir is offline
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I hate it so much but I love the sound of nylon string so I do it anyway...
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  #49  
Old 06-20-2013, 01:26 AM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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Cool Do You Like Stringing a Classical Guitar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paikon View Post
maybe you will never use them but when you judge a product make sure you know what it is.
I enjoyed the Sting video, and also reading the reviews...but I made no "judgement" about the TI KR116 strings. I only stated that those strings (ball-end) were not appropriate for use on MY classical guitars. But Sting's accompanist is not playing a classical guitar...it's a Parlour Guitar which has a pin-style bridge. I've got a similar Parlor Guitar, so I might decide to give them a try at some point in the future. It let you know if I like the sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garthman
I'm sorry but this is mostly nonsense. The tension that ball-end nylon strings exerts on the bridge is the same as a loop-end string (type for type, of course). A ball-end string is just a loop-end string that has a ball attached. That's it.
When you make such a blanket statement as you did, you should really do some research first. I'd be very interested in finding out what makes you 'qualified' to judge the information I posted and claim it to be "mostly nonsense." Are you a guitar builder, or a professional classical guitarist? Do have some education in the Science of Physics? Possibly in Trigonometry? Maybe you have a device that can accurately measure the downward force using different break angles for several different sets of strings?

If you feel my statements are mostly nonsense, provide some proof, facts and figures, or you're just blowing hot air.

Glen
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Last edited by scottishrogue; 06-20-2013 at 01:37 AM.
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  #50  
Old 06-20-2013, 01:32 AM
Paikon Paikon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishrogue View Post
But Sting's accompanist is not playing a classical guitar...it's a Parlour Guitar which has a pin-style bridge.
No it hasn just like my acoustic hasnt...shouldnt i use ball end strings?
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  #51  
Old 06-20-2013, 05:15 AM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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Cool Do You Like Stringing a Classical Guitar?

Paikon, you can use any type of strings you wish, but if you want to do the 'right' thing for your guitar, you'll select high-quality strings with anchors appropriate for the bridge it has. That would be plain ends for a classical guitar with a tie-style bridge, and ball-end strings for guitars with a pin-style bridge, or has a tailpiece to anchor strings. This is not 'rocket science'...it's common sense. I can't make it any simpler than that.

Glen
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Martin DXME/D-35E/DC Aura/000-14 Custom/D-16E Custom/
000C Nylon/0000-28HE/Concept IV Jumbo/00-16C/D-4132SE
Gibson LP Deluxe/ES-347 TD/Chet Atkins CE
Fender MIA Deluxe Strat
Art & Lutherie 12-string
Bellucci Concert
Sigma CR-7
Recording King ROS-06 FE3/RPH-05
D'Angelico "New Yorker"
New Masters "Esperance SP"
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“I never met a guitar I didn't like.”
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  #52  
Old 06-20-2013, 05:26 AM
Paikon Paikon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishrogue View Post
Paikon, you can use any type of strings you wish, but if you want to do the 'right' thing for your guitar, you'll select high-quality strings with anchors appropriate for the bridge it has. That would be plain ends for a classical guitar with a tie-style bridge, and ball-end strings for guitars with a pin-style bridge, or has a tailpiece to anchor strings. This is not 'rocket science'...it's common sense. I can't make it any simpler than that.

Glen
Tell that to the builders of acoustic guitars who use pinless bridges
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  #53  
Old 06-20-2013, 07:20 AM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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Cool Do You Like Stringing a Classical Guitar?

Paikon, I don't know any builders that use a 'pinless' bridge...but, I'd be interested in seeing a photo of an 'acoustic' guitar with a 'pinless' bridge, so I can see what you're talking about. I own an older (50s) classical guitar with a 'floating' bridge, and lattice bracing, but it has a metal tailpiece to anchor the strings, which are the nylon ball-end type.

Glen
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Yamaha FG-375S Jumbo
Martin DXME/D-35E/DC Aura/000-14 Custom/D-16E Custom/
000C Nylon/0000-28HE/Concept IV Jumbo/00-16C/D-4132SE
Gibson LP Deluxe/ES-347 TD/Chet Atkins CE
Fender MIA Deluxe Strat
Art & Lutherie 12-string
Bellucci Concert
Sigma CR-7
Recording King ROS-06 FE3/RPH-05
D'Angelico "New Yorker"
New Masters "Esperance SP"
Hermosa AH-20
“I never met a guitar I didn't like.”
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  #54  
Old 06-20-2013, 07:34 AM
Paikon Paikon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishrogue View Post
Paikon, I don't know any builders that use a 'pinless' bridge...

Glen
i figured that ...Lowden, McIlroy just to name two ...the rest you can search yourself or open a thread and ask all AGF users...you will get a lot of builders

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=123632

Last edited by Paikon; 06-20-2013 at 07:41 AM.
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  #55  
Old 06-20-2013, 08:15 AM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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Cool Do You Like Stringing a Classical Guitar?

Paikon, I owe you an apology! I thought you were just yankin' my chain, but I checked it out with the link you provided, and was amazed that I hadn't heard about this style of bridge. Thank you for enlightening me!

I might even buy one to try it on one of my beater guitars...if I had one. And, I might even try it out on one of my classical guitars. On second thought, maybe not. I guess I should do some research, first.

Glen
__________________
Yamaha FG-375S Jumbo
Martin DXME/D-35E/DC Aura/000-14 Custom/D-16E Custom/
000C Nylon/0000-28HE/Concept IV Jumbo/00-16C/D-4132SE
Gibson LP Deluxe/ES-347 TD/Chet Atkins CE
Fender MIA Deluxe Strat
Art & Lutherie 12-string
Bellucci Concert
Sigma CR-7
Recording King ROS-06 FE3/RPH-05
D'Angelico "New Yorker"
New Masters "Esperance SP"
Hermosa AH-20
“I never met a guitar I didn't like.”
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  #56  
Old 06-20-2013, 09:55 AM
Garthman Garthman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishrogue View Post
. . . When you make such a blanket statement as you did, you should really do some research first. I'd be very interested in finding out what makes you 'qualified' to judge the information I posted and claim it to be "mostly nonsense." Are you a guitar builder, or a professional classical guitarist? Do have some education in the Science of Physics? Possibly in Trigonometry? Maybe you have a device that can accurately measure the downward force using different break angles for several different sets of strings?

If you feel my statements are mostly nonsense, provide some proof, facts and figures, or you're just blowing hot air.

Glen
Aw come on! It's not rocket science. Typically - for most string makers - you can expect a difference in tension between a set of low tension strings and a set of high tension strings of 15 to 20 lbs. Now I've yet - in over 45 years of guitar playing - come across a classical guitar maker who says: "whatever you do, never ever put a set of high tension strings on this guitar or you'll lift the bridge off". Why? Because a classical guitar can take that sort of difference in tension without problem. And it's ditto for ball-end strings. H*ll, I know a guy who has had his classical guitar fitted with nickel-steel 9 gauge electric guitar strings for 25 years - no problem.

And yes, I have a lot of education in science - I majored in chemistry with physics and mathematics as subsidiaries - but I have better things to do in life than get out my calculator for this topic.
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  #57  
Old 06-20-2013, 10:40 AM
CFW CFW is offline
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This thread reminded me to order some new strings.

JPS_THO
John Pearse® Classical Guitar Thomastik John Pearse Strings Silver Plated/Nylon Wound Ball End .016 - .043, THO

I have my Cordoba Fusion up for sale, and its had these same strings on it for awhile now. I really liked these strings, so I'm stringing up another classical guitar with them.
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  #58  
Old 06-20-2013, 05:03 PM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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Cool Do You Like Stringing a Classical Guitar?

Garthman, your last statement only convinces me of the magnitude of your ignorance. You should really consider reading up on the subject, so you won't continue to embarrass yourself.

But, you have given me a good laugh, so thank you for that! Now, stop yankin' my chain!

Glen
__________________
Yamaha FG-375S Jumbo
Martin DXME/D-35E/DC Aura/000-14 Custom/D-16E Custom/
000C Nylon/0000-28HE/Concept IV Jumbo/00-16C/D-4132SE
Gibson LP Deluxe/ES-347 TD/Chet Atkins CE
Fender MIA Deluxe Strat
Art & Lutherie 12-string
Bellucci Concert
Sigma CR-7
Recording King ROS-06 FE3/RPH-05
D'Angelico "New Yorker"
New Masters "Esperance SP"
Hermosa AH-20
“I never met a guitar I didn't like.”
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  #59  
Old 06-20-2013, 05:26 PM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFW View Post
This thread reminded me to order some new strings.

JPS_THO
John Pearse® Classical Guitar Thomastik John Pearse Strings Silver Plated/Nylon Wound Ball End .016 - .043, THO

I have my Cordoba Fusion up for sale, and its had these same strings on it for awhile now. I really liked these strings, so I'm stringing up another classical guitar with them.
Glad we could subconsciously influence you.
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  #60  
Old 06-21-2013, 02:51 AM
Garthman Garthman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishrogue View Post
Garthman, your last statement only convinces me of the magnitude of your ignorance. You should really consider reading up on the subject, so you won't continue to embarrass yourself.

But, you have given me a good laugh, so thank you for that! Now, stop yankin' my chain!

Glen
Sorry, Glen, it's you that should be embarrassed. Too many gaffs!
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