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  #121  
Old 03-14-2015, 08:49 AM
rschultz rschultz is offline
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See also my thread on the Anthem + K&K.

As Doug suggests, the SL has a stereo jack so it should be very similar to the Lyric. But I don't think the SL has solder tabs like the Lyric, so it's unclear how much room there is in there to do it.

IMO, guys that like to tinker with this sort of thing would want the extra bells and whistles of the full Anthem... at least that is the board I'm in.
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  #122  
Old 03-16-2015, 10:46 AM
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I have enjoyed reading all of the informative posts in this thread. I currently have the Lyric in my D-28A and because of the small bridgeplate I have already installed it on the backside of the pins. I am thinking about adding the KK to this set-up.

If I install the lyric and KK Mini Pure both as a dual source sytem, how easy is it to use just the lyric alone? Is it possible to bypass the KK by using a standard guitar cord?

Thanks!
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  #123  
Old 03-16-2015, 11:00 AM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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The Lyric will be on the tip, so a normal guitar cord will only pick up the Lyric
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  #124  
Old 03-16-2015, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
The Lyric will be on the tip, so a normal guitar cord will only pick up the Lyric
Thank you Doug!
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  #125  
Old 03-16-2015, 11:29 AM
Yamaha Man Yamaha Man is offline
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Yes, thank you Doug....interesting topic of blending the two pickups together...somewhere on these forums I believe Doug mentioned blending a Lyric pickup with a mic...that's what I did...Lyric + Shure Beta 57A and blended the two together in my Marshall AD50D acoustic amp...comes out fabulous !!
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  #126  
Old 03-16-2015, 12:38 PM
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Ok, I have just read through the whole thread again and want to say thank you all for the great info!

Do you still use your 9 volt battery to supply power to the lyric or are you getting that through phantom power?
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  #127  
Old 03-16-2015, 04:19 PM
Yamaha Man Yamaha Man is offline
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I believe you must have the 9 volt battery in place to use the Lyric. I don't think it'll work with out it. It powers the
built-in pre-amp.
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  #128  
Old 03-16-2015, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
Yes, thank you Doug....interesting topic of blending the two pickups together...somewhere on these forums I believe Doug mentioned blending a Lyric pickup with a mic...that's what I did...Lyric + Shure Beta 57A and blended the two together in my Marshall AD50D acoustic amp...comes out fabulous !!
All I've tried is Lyric+Sunrise and Lyric+K&K. The Lyric+Sunrise was probably my favorite.
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  #129  
Old 03-18-2015, 06:18 AM
ReedGuitar ReedGuitar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rschultz View Post
Hi,

I was one of the first to try combining the Lyric with a passive K&K Pure Mini, along with Doug Young back in the spring. But for some reason I went away from it, I had trouble blending the two and didn't think it was worth the trouble of a dual source. I thought each source sounded pretty good by itself - and they do. But recently I decided to try it again because each one lacked something... and in trying to figure out what each one lacked, I tried a lot of different pickup configurations:

1) K&K, passive
2) K&K, with Pure Preamp
3) K&K, with onboard Tri-star Preamp
4) K&K + Lyric.
5) Lyric.
6) Lyric + Blackstack mag
7) K&K + MagMic
8) K&K + Blackstack mag
9) K&K + Silver Bullet

And now I'm back to the K&K + Lyric. Why, you ask? The Lyric as a single source was too mic-y, lacked bass and the handling noises were too much - and I tried a variety of presence settings. It sounded nice but not great. Believe me, I wanted this to work and I gave it a good go. The best I could make it sound was with a Venue to really dial it in, it needs specific EQ cuts in the midrange at 300-400 Hz to tame some mud and resonances. I've tried this in 2 guitars and it needed similar EQ. It really is finicky and the Venue does the best I could find with it.

The K&K is better by itself, and in one of my guitars is really really good after some mid-cut. It may be good enough by itself in my Jaffrey. But in my Taylor jumbo the K&K is just a little too weak in the treble and really benefits from a mic. I tried the Silver Bullet and it sounded great in my basement. But the mic is fairly sensitive and there's no way it could handle stage volumes.

That's why... because the Lyric is so feedback resistant. I can play the K&K + Lyric on a loud stage and not have any feedback issues.

That said, while each one can be used as a sole source for full range sound... the best way to combine them IMO is to use the Lyric as a mic over the top. So I cut the bass all the way out and cut the mids a lot too. Then just add the Lyric to give that mic air, but not too much. The K&K is the bulk of the sound. I like to add more mic when I finger pick, and less when I strum. So I can either use the volume wheel or a pedal to adjust/mute the lyric.

It really is a great setup once you figure out how to EQ both sources... and that is the key. The K&K needs a fair bit of mid cut, but the specific frequency isn't that critical... anywhere from 300-800 usually helps. Sure, there is a sweet spot, but it's tolerable if you don't get it right. But the Lyric I find to be more critical to finding the sweet spot. It can sound both boxy and have hot notes that reverberate if you don't cut in the right spot. Having a good preamp like a PADI or Venue or something with 1 or 2 mid sweeps is a must with the Lyric IMO.
I used the Lyric for a while in my OM28 and I also feel that it lacks body, depth and, most of all, bite. It's just to soft, specially when you use a pick and want some attack going.

This setup is very interesting and I think I try it in my D28... only doubt is what preamp to use it with. I thought about the KK belt clip preamp (portable, 2 ch volume on the go, gain and eq trimpots for each ch) ... emailed the folks at K&K and they recomended the Dual Channel Pro ST for this setup ... it's primarily a pickup+mag preamp but it's actually the same preamp on the Trinity system, just doesn't have the mic power which the Lyric doesn't need ... anyway, do you guys think this is a good setup? K&K+Lyric in the K&K preamp?

BTW, this is my 1st post here. I've been reading the forum for a while and it's been very helpful. Special thanks to Doug and rschultz for all the info shared.

Cheers
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  #130  
Old 03-18-2015, 09:49 AM
dcopper dcopper is offline
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I know this is off topic a bit but RSchultz has had some interesting projects in wiring.
Has anyone ever attempted to use the ES v1.3 (2012 models) endpin and wire in a second source (K&K)?

I have a 914 with a Sunrise mag and K&K pm wired to a stereo output jack. I send each pickup to a separate input on the RedEye twin, blend the outputs and get great results, sending a mono signal to an AER/board/ or Fishman Loudbox Performer.

I get the string definition and crispness of the Sunrise with the body warmth of the K&K, just like everyone on this thread is doing with the Lyric and K&K combination.

Since the ES has the mag pickup under the fretboard, adding a K&K to it might work out well. Just wondering if there was a way to wire in a K&K and still keep the ES in place, using the mag pickup already under the fretboard?

Thanks in advance and great thread here!
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  #131  
Old 03-18-2015, 12:17 PM
markcrawford markcrawford is offline
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Have any of you tried the Mach 2 pre by kk. I have one and it is NY the same just with added notch filter. Tje.sound has more high end and the mid and high controls seem different. Jack at kk did say that they were different. All I know is that their k pure pre sounds less derailed if that makes sense. Makes a diffeeence.
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  #132  
Old 04-10-2017, 10:53 AM
rschultz rschultz is offline
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I just reviewed this thread. Somehow I got away from the Lyric, and have been using an Anthem + K&K for the past couple years. Well I finally got tired of the Anthem... it's convenient, but just lacks a certain liveliness. It's been a couple years, but the thing I remember about the Lyric was how LIVE it was (that's both good and bad). So am back at looking at the Lyric and a mag to pair with the K&K. I just bought a DiMarzio Black Angel I want to try. Not sure where I'll end up, but it should be a fun adventure!
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  #133  
Old 07-14-2018, 05:28 PM
rschultz rschultz is offline
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I ran the K&K+BlackAngel, and then K&K+Anthem SL for about 6 months each. But, in the end, neither was as good as the K&K+Lyric. So I'm back on that.

But this time it's different because I have a Helix. The ability to EQ, IR, filter, etc is great and so easy. I find that the K&K does benefit from IR, the 3sigma Mart45 sounds great on the passive K&K. However, the Lyric doesn't work so well with IR's.

EQ/filtering in Helix looks like this:
Lyric: HPF (500 Hz), LPF (12-13k).
K&K: ParaEQ (dip at 160 Hz, and again at 700 Hz). Mart 45 IR.

So notice that the K&K is full range and the bulk of the sound. The Lyric is just some mic over the top, and with the volume knob I can adjust that on the fly.

The Helix now gives me the ability to HP/LP the Lyric, and use IR on the K&K... something that my previous boards and pedals like Felix couldn't do. IR on the K&K is a very noticeable improvement.
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  #134  
Old 07-17-2018, 05:10 AM
TheSaint TheSaint is offline
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Regarding the Lyric, I have it installed on a guitar with a natural finish and the handling noise really affects the way I play. I'm constantly having to think about how I hold the instrument.

I was thinking that I could install it in a gloss finish guitar which might improve things.

Has anyone got any experience of this..?
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  #135  
Old 07-17-2018, 06:14 AM
rschultz rschultz is offline
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I don’t think gloss would help, it’s just a very live pickup. Two things I do I combat handling noise:
1. Turn the presence knob down some
2. A low pass filter at around 12-13k often helps in this regard without affecting the tone.
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