Need Help - Pierre Bensusan Crazy Strech

[mmmaak]

Originally Posted by banpreso

hey mak, when you grab that chord, 5 x 3 2 3 0, do you have really short nails on your ring finger? the more i rotate my wrist to get the pinky fretted, the more the ring finger gets rotated out of position, to a point i can fret it cleanly. you know what i'm talking about? the chord is completely fine without fretting the ring finger, it's that finger that gives me the most trouble

Yes, I always keep my fretting-hand nails as short as possible. I find it hard to play anything cleanly otherwise. Maybe you should clip them and then try again?

I'll see if my girlfriend can snap a picture for me now. You sure 5x3230 is the chord? Bass to treble, right?

[mmmaak]

OK, here it is:



Obviously, how much you need to "rotate" depends on your finger lengths. Mine are pretty short, hence the contorted position

Someone with a longer pinky could probably achieve a more natural arc, hence less need for rotation to clear the treble strings.

[banpreso]

Originally Posted by mmmaak

OK, here it is:



Obviously, how much you need to "rotate" depends on your finger lengths. Mine are pretty short, hence the contorted position

Someone with a longer pinky could probably achieve a more natural arc, hence less need for rotation to clear the treble strings.

that looks crazy!

thanks for the picture!

[usb_chord]

Yikes mmak! Dont hurt yourself!

[mmmaak]

Originally Posted by usb_chord

Yikes mmak! Dont hurt yourself!

That ain't so bad, Brian. I find this one, while less of a stretch, much more taxing on the arm muscles:



ahhhh, the things we do to play a white man-scaled instrument

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by mmmaak

You sure 5x3230 is the chord? Bass to treble, right?

The chord in question in Wu Wei is 074240 bass to treble and to let ring so stretch that pinky another fret. Ain't going to happen.

[David Hilyard]

This may or may not be of help. May just be discouraging.

Pierre playing "Wu Wei" at The Freight and Salvage in 1995. He is using a capo, so that shortens the stretches a bit. I don't know if the chord in question is at 1:14 or not, but that's a stretch. The man is not human. Who can play like that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6WXav_ZII

It's also in this wonderful version, at 1:14. He plants and then stretches for the bass note by rotating. Nicely played version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMT5a...eature=related

[banpreso]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

The chord in question in Wu Wei is 074240 bass to treble and to let ring so stretch that pinky another fret. Ain't going to happen.

you're right about wuwei's chord

mak was showing a chord from L'Alchimiste, which is 5x3230


i just watched a few more youtube players doing the 074240 strech. those who are able to do it all have the unique ability to reach their pinky out REALLY far...

i noticed that my left hand pinky is about 5mm longer than the right pinky... so maybe if i keep on playing guitar it'll grow another 5mm and i'll be able to do it then...

[Bryan T]

Originally Posted by banpreso

you're right about wuwei's chord

mak was showing a chord from L'Alchimiste, which is 5x3230


i just watched a few more youtube players doing the 074240 strech. those who are able to do it all have the unique ability to reach their pinky out REALLY far...

i noticed that my left hand pinky is about 5mm longer than the right pinky... so maybe if i keep on playing guitar it'll grow another 5mm and i'll be able to do it then...

I've noticed that it isn't as much about finger length as it is flexibility. I've seen players with short, pudgy fingers who can do amazing stretches because they have a lot of flexibility. The kind of exercises that I mentioned above will improve that . . . but don't hurt yourself! Build up to it slowly over time.

Bryan

[Doug Young]

I had a very interesting discussion with Muriel Anderson recently (I interviewed her for the August 2009 Acoustic Guitar, just hitting the streets). This part of the discussion didn't make the article, but I asked her about her ability to make long stretches, being a tiny lady as she is. We compared hand size, and the tips of her fingers only came to about my 1st knuckle joint! So I have at least 3/4 of an inch on her as far as finger length, yet she easily makes stretches that I would have trouble with. She showed me how simple changes in hand position, and relaxing make it possible.

The chord in question is a good reminder, I have never tried that tune, and on first try, there was no way I could see myself fingering that chord, and wasn't even sure how Pierre would do it. But after seeing the videos David posted, I just tried it again, and it's certainly possible. Probably won't be my favorite chord, but I can get it by shifting my hand the way the guy does on the 2nd video. Not very comfortable, but maybe with some practice...

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I had a very interesting discussion with Muriel Anderson recently (I interviewed her for the August 2009 Acoustic Guitar, just hitting the streets). This part of the discussion didn't make the article, but I asked her about her ability to make long stretches, being a tiny lady as she is. We compared hand size, and the tips of her fingers only came to about my 1st knuckle joint! So I have at least 3/4 of an inch on her as far as finger length, yet she easily makes stretches that I would have trouble with. She showed me how simple changes in hand position, and relaxing make it possible.

The chord in question is a good reminder, I have never tried that tune, and on first try, there was no way I could see myself fingering that chord, and wasn't even sure how Pierre would do it. But after seeing the videos David posted, I just tried it again, and it's certainly possible. Probably won't be my favorite chord, but I can get it by shifting my hand the way the guy does on the 2nd video. Not very comfortable, but maybe with some practice...

Doug, some things are doable with practice and some just are not. With variations in hand size, finger stretch and flexibility of tendons some people could do this particular stretch with ease and some never could with all the practice in the world. My point was that if it is causing hand pain don't force yourself into tendinitis, carpel tunnel or some other ailment. Sometimes it is smarter to find a work around.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

My point was that if it is causing hand pain don't force yourself into tendinitis, carpel tunnel or some other ailment. Sometimes it is smarter to find a work around.

Absolutely, never do anything that causes hand pain. I think every Bensusan tune I've tried, I've ended up with at least one workaround. There's a point, where you just want to play the tune and dropping a note somewhere's not going to be a deal breaker, compared to hurting yourself.

But I think there are different ways to approach fingering issues, and some things are more doable than they first appear. I wish I could demonstrate what Muriel showed me, it was very much "if you try it that way, it's impossible, if you do it this way, it's easy". In no way was she proposing anything that causes pain, she was showing the opposite, total relaxation and ease. My point was that it's not all about brute force (in fact, DON'T do that, you'll hurt yourself) or stretching, even tho Pierre emphasizes stretching exercises. Sometimes it's about a different motion or position, which I think the videos David posted demonstrate pretty well. Heck, I even ran into a player once who was able to get those impossible bass notes by using his nose :-)

[mmmaak]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

The chord in question in Wu Wei is 074240 bass to treble and to let ring so stretch that pinky another fret. Ain't going to happen.

Actually, I was demonstrating the chord from L'Alchemiste for Jun.

EDIT: OK, nevermind. I see he replied to you in his previous post already

Originally Posted by Bryan T

I've noticed that it isn't as much about finger length as it is flexibility. I've seen players with short, pudgy fingers who can do amazing stretches because they have a lot of flexibility. The kind of exercises that I mentioned above will improve that . . . but don't hurt yourself! Build up to it slowly over time.

I agree, but there's still a very real physical limitation for people with small hands/short fingers. No amount of (humane) stretching can take us past that limit. That's not to say we can't come up with our own arrangements, of course

[banpreso]

here's a little update. after working one some streching (not a whole lot to be honest), i can comfortably fret 024260. so 024270 seems to be doable, with a bit more practice...