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  #16  
Old 11-12-2007, 09:27 AM
sirflyguy2000 sirflyguy2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by Poetmonk View Post
And one more thing, unlike wood, you can't tell one apart. As in, people who love HOG buy guitars with HOG wood for the sound and people who love Braz., Koa, EIR, Maple, Etc, go for that wood for that sound. Same as in top wood, Cedar, Engel, Sitka, Adirondack, Italian, Etc,. But if Plastic guitars all sound the same then you leave the buyer with no choice. The shapes might be different but the sound is all the same. Talk about mass production, reminds me of "Soylent Green". I know it sounds like I'm putting it down but I'm really trying not too. I don't think Composite guitars are going to be the wave of the future but alternative woods will be. Rainsong guitars started out here in Hawaii and never really caught on.
P.S. I guess i really am a Wood snob and have to deal with it. So i ask for your forgiveness to those i might have offended.
Composite Acoustics are made from people? Ewwwwww!
Seriously, I don't know if it is the wave of the future or not, but it is certainly a wonderful and creative alternative to a wood guitar. As for sound, there is a Taylor tone, a Martin tone, etc., which of course varies a bit from shape to shape. Wood choice certainly figures into this. However, I would bet CA's different body styles lend themselves to a different tone from model to model, with a consistency within each model that is probably within a closer tolerance for sound than a Taylor or Martin. I have heard many on this forum state how they went through however many of whatever of the same model of wood guitar until they found "the one". I would bet this wouldn't be such a deal with the CA's.
Mind you, I am not jumping off of the wood bandwagon. I love the sound, feel, look, and smell of wood, and I love nice wood guitars. I just find it a neat thing when people try new things in designing instruments, so I have to give some kudos there for the innovation involved. Whether one likes what Ovation, with their fiberglass backs, or Taylor, with their NT necks, or (insert whatever innovation that has caught on), has done, I would think we all would have to agree that they have caught on with a goodly percentage of the guitar playing public, and have made other manufacturers take note. I just think that it is a great thing to have innovators that are pushing the boundaries a bit, whether I personally would use their product or not. As for CA, well, it at least makes it possible to leave that several thousand dollar Omega acoustic safely at home when you are asked to play at the hayride & bonfire in November! Besides that, they appear to be a very well made, easily played, and wonderful sounding alternative to a wood guitar.
What I am saying is, "It's all good!"
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  #17  
Old 11-12-2007, 09:30 AM
morg21279 morg21279 is offline
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I have a few year old Legacy AE with the Fishman premium blend system. I've owned Martin, Collings and Bourgeois, but the CA is now my only acoustic. Not that it out-performed the others, but because it can hold its own against other fine quality guitars, with none of the wood care and feeding issues.

I made a few mods to mine that I think help it a bit. Replaced the Tusq saddle and plastic pins with Colosi FWI, and changed the Fishman UST to a K&K. Still using the Fishman onboard pre-amp, just changed the transducer. In a lower volume setting, I can use the internal mike. For band work, I use the UST with a DTAR Mama Bear. This lets me get as loud as I want and dial in a number of different guitar sounds.

Bottom line ... fine acoustic sound, no humidity issues ... great plugged in.

What's not to like ... not as pretty as a Collings or Bourgeois 'burst. Missing a (tiny) bit of the charachter and uniqueness of real wood. If you have a great wood guitar today, add this and see which one you like best. If you don't, I'd buy the CA over any "production" guitar in the same price range at your local guitar shop.
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  #18  
Old 11-12-2007, 09:32 AM
Poetmonk Poetmonk is offline
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Originally Posted by Mosspoh View Post
Lets face it, the beauty of wood is really the best part. As the technology progresses there will definitely be different sounding guitars made from the plastics, carbon fiber, etc. I am certain that polymer sciences will move to the point they can get different amounts of resonance with different plastics...it'll never be as pretty though. I love the look, smell, and feel of wood. I also love the technology, care, and even the cool futuristic look of the CA. I think the true wave will be a nice fusion of the technologies. There will be some kind of harmony met as people experiment with materials more. Lately it does feel as if they are trying to use carbon fiber for everything. Sailboats, cars, guitars, tennis racquets, pulleys, yada yada yada.
Scientist's have yet to clone an animal without health problems so i doubt they can do it for an exact replica of a specific tonewood. It proves that you can't play with what God has made perfect.
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Taylor "06" 914CE fall limited Coco/Engel.
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  #19  
Old 11-12-2007, 09:43 AM
Poetmonk Poetmonk is offline
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Originally Posted by morg21279 View Post
I have a few year old Legacy AE with the Fishman premium blend system. I've owned Martin, Collings and Bourgeois, but the CA is now my only acoustic. Not that it out-performed the others, but because it can hold its own against other fine quality guitars, with none of the wood care and feeding issues.

I made a few mods to mine that I think help it a bit. Replaced the Tusq saddle and plastic pins with Colosi FWI, and changed the Fishman UST to a K&K. Still using the Fishman onboard pre-amp, just changed the transducer. In a lower volume setting, I can use the internal mike. For band work, I use the UST with a DTAR Mama Bear. This lets me get as loud as I want and dial in a number of different guitar sounds.

Bottom line ... fine acoustic sound, no humidity issues ... great plugged in.

What's not to like ... not as pretty as a Collings or Bourgeois 'burst. Missing a (tiny) bit of the charachter and uniqueness of real wood. If you have a great wood guitar today, add this and see which one you like best. If you don't, I'd buy the CA over any "production" guitar in the same price range at your local guitar shop.
That's the great thing about all the great guitar builders out there now, if you love it and it makes you happy then your set. If you think it's as good as a Collings and a Bourgeois then i would think it's as good as a Goodall and a Ryan so maybe you are on to something.
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McCOLLUM GAC Brazilian/Italian spruce
Taylor "97" 814CE EIR/Sitka
Taylor "98" K14C Koa/Cedar
Taylor "04" K22CE-L30 Koa/Koa
Taylor "06" 914CE fall limited Coco/Engel.
Baby Taylor
Collings "01" D3 EIR/Sitka
Martin "1939" 0-17 Mahog.
Ovation "86" Anniversary
Gibson R7 Goldtop
Carvin DC400
Carvin strat
Epiphone elite les paul

http://www.reverbnation.com:80/marcocatracchia
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  #20  
Old 11-12-2007, 09:43 AM
Health Freak Health Freak is offline
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Originally Posted by Poetmonk View Post
And one more thing, unlike wood, you can't tell one apart. As in, people who love HOG buy guitars with HOG wood for the sound and people who love Braz., Koa, EIR, Maple, Etc, go for that wood for that sound. Same as in top wood, Cedar, Engel, Sitka, Adirondack, Italian, Etc,. But if Plastic guitars all sound the same then you leave the buyer with no choice. The shapes might be different but the sound is all the same. Talk about mass production, reminds me of "Soylent Green". I know it sounds like I'm putting it down but I'm really trying not too. I don't think Composite guitars are going to be the wave of the future but alternative woods will be. Rainsong guitars started out here in Hawaii and never really caught on.
P.S. I guess i really am a Wood snob and have to deal with it. So i ask for your forgiveness to those i might have offended.
Totally agree about people going after certain woods for "that" sound. I think that is true for materials other than wood, as well. After many wodd combos, the one that got me with "that" sound was a CA.

As different companies build composite guitars, different voices will come out. Bracing (or lack thereof) and different shapes, thicknesses, and densities will provide plenty of variation. Especially as mew materials become available.

To say (in essence) that they are plastic and all sound the same is kind of inaccurate, but definitely a valid opinion. Do all EI rosewood and sitka spruce guitars sound the same? Even if made by the same company? Even if it's the same model? From the same tree, even? Nope. Some love that variation, while others don't.

I'm a purist when it comes to my tone. My tone (the one that I've been hearing in my head for years) is available to me in "real life" in a CA guitar. Pure? How's knowing that I can order another GX Player as a back up in two years and it will be as close to identical in tone as you can get to the one I have on order now. If I want variation, I can find it in different bracing patterns with different voicings, or look to other brands of composite guitars.

I know people who own multpile rosewood/sitka Martins. The difference in tone is in the bracing and wodd thicknesses. The difference in feel may come from the neck and it's profile/nut width. They just like rosewood and sitka and have a refined enough ear to hear the subtle differences in tone between the models by the same maker. Just like I can hear the tonal differences in even a GX Player versus a GX Performer (different pracing patterns).

But, no offense taken at all. I'm a carbon snob, so I guess we're even!

FWIW, I think Rainsongs are awful and sound like a thin, blurry mess when strummed.
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  #21  
Old 11-12-2007, 10:04 AM
Poetmonk Poetmonk is offline
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I guess were all snobs and i'm glad you said it. And again i think if you love the guitar that's the most important thing. But what i would like to stress is that YOUR tone comes from YOUR fingers not the guitar itself no matter who made it. Proof in point, Stevie Ray Vaughn had a distinctive tone in his guitar playing and that's the one most people hear when he was playing his Strat but he also had that tone when he played a Les Paul with Humbuckers. Same goes for Lindsey Buckingham, he started with a Les Paul and went to a Rick Turner. Same tone. Eddie Van Halen Etc. So a Guitar has it's sound but the player makes it's tone.
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McCOLLUM GAC Brazilian/Italian spruce
Taylor "97" 814CE EIR/Sitka
Taylor "98" K14C Koa/Cedar
Taylor "04" K22CE-L30 Koa/Koa
Taylor "06" 914CE fall limited Coco/Engel.
Baby Taylor
Collings "01" D3 EIR/Sitka
Martin "1939" 0-17 Mahog.
Ovation "86" Anniversary
Gibson R7 Goldtop
Carvin DC400
Carvin strat
Epiphone elite les paul

http://www.reverbnation.com:80/marcocatracchia
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  #22  
Old 11-12-2007, 10:15 AM
Poetmonk Poetmonk is offline
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I have no idea how Composite Guitars are made but all i see in my thinking is: heat a piece of plastic until soft then smoosh it into a mold and NEXT. Unlike a small shop luthier who taps the wood, carves the bracing for the sound he/she wants, taps the back and sides and top again to see where he/she's going as their putting it together, spray finish, sand, spray finish, sand, tap, spray finish, sand, rub till gloss. Man, that's the romance of guitar building in my eyes, hands and wood working together. Thank God for luthiers.
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McCOLLUM GAC Brazilian/Italian spruce
Taylor "97" 814CE EIR/Sitka
Taylor "98" K14C Koa/Cedar
Taylor "04" K22CE-L30 Koa/Koa
Taylor "06" 914CE fall limited Coco/Engel.
Baby Taylor
Collings "01" D3 EIR/Sitka
Martin "1939" 0-17 Mahog.
Ovation "86" Anniversary
Gibson R7 Goldtop
Carvin DC400
Carvin strat
Epiphone elite les paul

http://www.reverbnation.com:80/marcocatracchia
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  #23  
Old 11-12-2007, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Poetmonk View Post
. Rainsong guitars started out here in Hawaii and never really caught on. .......
P.S. I guess i really am a Wood snob and have to deal with it. So i ask for your forgiveness to those i might have offended.
IMHO Composite Acoustics makes a much "woodier sounding" guitar than Rainsong which may give them a better chance of "catching on"...
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  #24  
Old 11-12-2007, 10:22 AM
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Sound clips on a web site don't really tell the tale. I'm far more impressed with my GX in person than I was with the clips. And the different bodies definitely do not sound the same. The X I had has a different tone from the GX. Both very nice, but different.

I still love wood and have a "better" wood guitar, but the CA is better IMO than a lot of wood guitars I've owned and the stability is especially nice for us desert dwellers.
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  #25  
Old 11-12-2007, 10:33 AM
Mosspoh Mosspoh is offline
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Originally Posted by Poetmonk View Post
Scientist's have yet to clone an animal without health problems so i doubt they can do it for an exact replica of a specific tonewood. It proves that you can't play with what God has made perfect.
I fail to see how cloning has anything to do with polymer sciences, but you're also talking about a 20 year time span with cloning. Its not a simple matter to work on a scale the size of a cell, and health problems are inevitable anyway. They DO grow cartilage without any real problems...so it moves along. There was also a time when the very computer you are typing on now was unfathomable...just as the capabilities of quantum computing will be one day. We play with what God has made "perfect" all the time. If we didn't then we wouldn't be driving cars or anything else.
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  #26  
Old 11-12-2007, 10:34 AM
Poetmonk Poetmonk is offline
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Sound clips on a web site don't really tell the tale. I'm far more impressed with my GX in person than I was with the clips. And the different bodies definitely do not sound the same. The X I had has a different tone from the GX. Both very nice, but different.

I still love wood and have a "better" wood guitar, but the CA is better IMO than a lot of wood guitars I've owned and the stability is especially nice for us desert dwellers.
What i meant by that(shapes) was that the dread shapes could sound the same, the GA shape could sound the same ETC. As the MP3 recordings go your right but if you compare them to the wood guitars they just sounded muddy and the other ones sound tinny,plasticy to ME.
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McCOLLUM GAC Brazilian/Italian spruce
Taylor "97" 814CE EIR/Sitka
Taylor "98" K14C Koa/Cedar
Taylor "04" K22CE-L30 Koa/Koa
Taylor "06" 914CE fall limited Coco/Engel.
Baby Taylor
Collings "01" D3 EIR/Sitka
Martin "1939" 0-17 Mahog.
Ovation "86" Anniversary
Gibson R7 Goldtop
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Carvin strat
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  #27  
Old 11-12-2007, 10:41 AM
Poetmonk Poetmonk is offline
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Originally Posted by Mosspoh View Post
I fail to see how cloning has anything to do with polymer sciences, but you're also talking about a 20 year time span with cloning. Its not a simple matter to work on a scale the size of a cell, and health problems are inevitable anyway. They DO grow cartilage without any real problems...so it moves along. There was also a time when the very computer you are typing on now was unfathomable...just as the capabilities of quantum computing will be one day. We play with what God has made "perfect" all the time. If we didn't then we wouldn't be driving cars or anything else.
Maybe it's me, but i don't remember reading about Jesus driving a Corvette. We can "try or play" but we'll never come close. Ever!
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McCOLLUM GAC Brazilian/Italian spruce
Taylor "97" 814CE EIR/Sitka
Taylor "98" K14C Koa/Cedar
Taylor "04" K22CE-L30 Koa/Koa
Taylor "06" 914CE fall limited Coco/Engel.
Baby Taylor
Collings "01" D3 EIR/Sitka
Martin "1939" 0-17 Mahog.
Ovation "86" Anniversary
Gibson R7 Goldtop
Carvin DC400
Carvin strat
Epiphone elite les paul

http://www.reverbnation.com:80/marcocatracchia
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  #28  
Old 11-12-2007, 10:44 AM
JasonA JasonA is offline
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Originally Posted by Poetmonk View Post
What i meant by that(shapes) was that the dread shapes could sound the same, the GA shape could sound the same ETC. As the MP3 recordings go your right but if you compare them to the wood guitars they just sounded muddy and the other ones sound tinny,plasticy to ME.
I agree with you about the MP3s, I just don't think those recordings capture the guitars well. I feel that way about some of the wood guitars they have also, in the instances where I've played the actual guitar they have listed.
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  #29  
Old 11-12-2007, 11:12 AM
Poetmonk Poetmonk is offline
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I do have to say that so far the Composite guitar player's, even after quoting me have been very nice about it. I might not like Composite guitars but the players sure are nice people. Thanks.
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McCOLLUM GAC Brazilian/Italian spruce
Taylor "97" 814CE EIR/Sitka
Taylor "98" K14C Koa/Cedar
Taylor "04" K22CE-L30 Koa/Koa
Taylor "06" 914CE fall limited Coco/Engel.
Baby Taylor
Collings "01" D3 EIR/Sitka
Martin "1939" 0-17 Mahog.
Ovation "86" Anniversary
Gibson R7 Goldtop
Carvin DC400
Carvin strat
Epiphone elite les paul

http://www.reverbnation.com:80/marcocatracchia
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  #30  
Old 11-12-2007, 12:08 PM
MJH MJH is offline
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Originally Posted by Health Freak View Post

FWIW, I think Rainsongs are awful and sound like a thin, blurry mess when strummed.

Do you really feel that way or is the wink just telling us it's like a Taylor/Martin thing?

I have a Rainsong WS1000 and think it is an incredible guitar. I don't know how to add 2 quotes, but astrummer said he thinks CA's have a "woodier" sound. That may be, but I played them both before buying and definitely prefered the Rainsong. CA's are getting a lot of thread time on this forum, but I would tell people to try them both out before buying. It really is like a Taylor/Martin thing.
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