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  #46  
Old 03-17-2016, 03:09 PM
S_Spruce S_Spruce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Lawler View Post
You're just mad because I preferred guitar A, haha.

Tim the partypooper.
I don't even remember what you preferred, my friend. I'd hardly mind that, either way. I just need people to tell me what they like more and which one they think is a better instrument.
Musical instruments are tools and I don't get emotional talking about them.
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  #47  
Old 03-17-2016, 03:49 PM
Timothy Lawler Timothy Lawler is offline
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You're right of course about a subcardioid having less proximity effect than cardioid. Perhaps what I heard as proximity effect was the strong low mid frequency balance of the particular nearfield mic placement.
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  #48  
Old 03-18-2016, 07:46 AM
S_Spruce S_Spruce is offline
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I'd like to thank everybody who participated in this blind test.

Guitar A is Yamaha C45, an $80 all-laminate student guitar.

Guitar B is Cremona, a 30+ year-old vintage all-solid-wood instrument (spruce deck, mohagony neck and rosewood fingerboard), made in Czechoslovakia. It has no model number and was probably made in limited numbers since it appears to be a collectible nowadays. At about $500, it isn't super expensive but I am not sure how well-made it is. They let me test-drive it, and I needed this blind test to help me decide whether it's worth buying it as a studio guitar, for $500, as a real upgrade from the cheap Yamaha we had around there. I think I will. I like its sound and this test helped me insure I wasn't influenced by its price tag in my evaluation of the sound.

Here's a break-down of your votes:

VOTES: (A received 3 votes, B received 11.)
Norman2 prefers B
ZippyChip prefers B
sirwhale prefers B
rdeane prefers B
Wascal prefers B
Mr. Scott prefers B
Ed-in-Ohio prefers B, feels A is crushed in comparison.
Minexploration prefers B, says the way it handles the highs says something about it being the better guitar.
dosland prefers B, but has reservations about its weak bass. Cautiously suspects it being made of spruce.
tkoehler1 prefers B
dekutree64 prefers B

YamaYairi prefers A
charles Tauber prefers A
RodB prefers A, but not by much, and isn't impressed by either. Suspects B is made of spruce (but just the top)
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  #49  
Old 03-18-2016, 09:58 AM
YamaYairi YamaYairi is offline
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Interesting results! Before you buy the Cremona, I'd suggest trying to find an old Yairi CY120, CY125 or CY130. They have very impressive sound and more bass than the Cremona.
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  #50  
Old 03-18-2016, 06:22 PM
dosland dosland is offline
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If those are really your only options I guess either is fine. But why not track down any Cordoba, new or used, or a LaPatrie - either should be significantly better in the 500 or less price category.
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  #51  
Old 03-19-2016, 03:10 PM
S_Spruce S_Spruce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dosland View Post
If those are really your only options I guess either is fine. But why not track down any Cordoba, new or used, or a LaPatrie - either should be significantly better in the 500 or less price category.
Thanks. I'll look them up.

But I don't understand why you said "either is fine." To me, this test showed that people overwhelmingly thought B was a superior guitar, and it's pretty cheap for a European all-solid wood instrument. One of the reasons why I thought I needed to put up a test like this was to find out if wood vs laminate was really such a big deal when it comes to actual sound. Turns out it is. Materials do matter. So, I'll probably buy it, because I showed it to a luthier and was told it has great fretwork and seems to have "aged like wine" over the years, showing no signs of abuse. I'm not crazy about the bass on it, but the luthier said a better matching set of strings would make it a dream-come-true guitar. I'll take a chance.
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  #52  
Old 03-19-2016, 05:13 PM
dosland dosland is offline
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Which one sounds better in a recording is just one factor when picking a guitar. Fit, feel, finish quality, various structural issues, condition, etc., all play into the equation. Personally, given a $500 budget I'd get a new Cordoba with its warranty over either of the instruments you're looking at. But if you really like playing the Cremona, my opinion shouldn't matter much
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  #53  
Old 03-20-2016, 05:18 AM
S_Spruce S_Spruce is offline
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Already got the Cremona. But those Cordoba guitars look lovely and have great reviews. I'm considering buying one for a different sound. Lots of models and choices.
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  #54  
Old 03-20-2016, 06:43 AM
Norman2 Norman2 is offline
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Hi, Isn't the Cremona spelled Kremona. I hava a Kremmona Rosa Blanca flamenco guitar
built by Kremona in Bulgaria. If it is the same brand it is a very well made guitar, better
than the Yamahas, They are very popular in Europe. Keep it. Regards
Norman2
,
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  #55  
Old 03-20-2016, 07:14 AM
S_Spruce S_Spruce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman2 View Post
Hi, Isn't the Cremona spelled Kremona. I hava a Kremmona Rosa Blanca flamenco guitar
built by Kremona in Bulgaria. If it is the same brand it is a very well made guitar, better
than the Yamahas, They are very popular in Europe. Keep it. Regards
Norman2
,
No, it's another brand. From what I found online, it's changed its name from Cremona to Strunal after the collapse of Soviet Socialism. So the company is now called Strunal. They make classicals ranging from $300 to 600 or so... I think their production standards aren't the same. They must be cutting costs, because from the online samples I don't see any modern Strunal sounding nearly as smooth and woody as this vintage guitar.
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  #56  
Old 03-20-2016, 04:09 PM
tkoehler1 tkoehler1 is offline
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Thanks for doing this interesting test S Spruce !
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  #57  
Old 03-20-2016, 07:42 PM
Raiden Raiden is offline
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Nice experiment! I would be very interested to hear some more blind tests in the future.
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  #58  
Old 03-21-2016, 12:43 AM
S_Spruce S_Spruce is offline
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You're welcome. What I find most striking about this blind test, is Timothy Lawler's vote. He basically chose a toy guitar over a European all-solid-wood instrument, which at least one luthier I went to says is built to professional standards and has aged like fine wine. And he gave such a vote, even after dissecting the file in his DAW, level-matching to his taste and giving it his no-doubt expert ear.

Does anybody else find that strange? Is it likely that his possible (I am simply assuming) preference for darker sound signatures played a more significant role in his evaluation than the increase in tone quality going from laminate to solid wood?
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  #59  
Old 03-21-2016, 01:41 AM
dosland dosland is offline
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Doesn't seem strange to me at all, sound is subjective, and preferences vary in all sorts of ways. None of us can definitely say we'd prefer the sound of the Cremona over the Yamaha in real life, we'd each have to try them both for ourselves and maybe have someone else play them to us. This was a fun and interesting test, but I wouldn't draw any substantial conclusions from it. As you suggest, individual preference definitely plays a major part in our assessments of these instruments.
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  #60  
Old 03-21-2016, 05:31 AM
RodB RodB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Spruce View Post
You're welcome. What I find most striking about this blind test, is Timothy Lawler's vote...........Does anybody else find that strange?........
Not at all - he's in good company
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