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  #16  
Old 03-02-2015, 07:34 AM
brucefulton brucefulton is offline
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Originally Posted by ukejon View Post

The common denominator is the use of nylon strings. Not sure that lumping them all under the term "Classical" makes sense any more.
In the context of acoustic guitar, nylon string guitar = classical guitar. That's historic and contemporary usage.

However, I would suggest that if you really want to make the distinction that classical guitar refers to the genre, then it is the threads that refer to other than classical music and repertoire that should be moved, not the discussion section that should be renamed. There is another section, General Acoustic Guitar Discussion, that appropriately covers acoustic guitars of any string type.

So, if you really want to make the distinction you raise, move the threads, don't rename the discussion section. Leave this section for discussion of classical guitar and move the threads of discussion related to nylon string not related to the classical guitar repertoire, technique and genre to the general acoustic guitar section.
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2015, 09:03 AM
Mikeleric Mikeleric is offline
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The description of the forum is "discussions related to classical And nylon stringed guitars".
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  #18  
Old 03-10-2015, 09:19 AM
trek1500 trek1500 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
To the moderators, owners and whoever is in charge:

Since the majority of threads on this forum seem to deal with crossover and/or hybrid style guitars, would it be more honesty and informative to call this section "Nylon" rather than the somewhat misleading "Classical"?

Just askin',
Dave
Interesting thought....I just bought a Nylon stringed guitar...an Ibanez (listed in my signature) and it was mainly something for my son to learn on...although I must say I love playing it myself!

When I was much younger I was encouraged to study classical guitar which in a way I regret but now being older and more mature I love listening to classical guitar and have a desire to raise the bar on my playing so I spend a lot of time watching classical pieces on You Tube and attempting to improve through various means...fellow players...etc...

The Ibanez is a cutaway....lighter and much easier on the fingers...I love it!
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  #19  
Old 03-14-2015, 06:50 PM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucefulton View Post
In the context of acoustic guitar, nylon string guitar = classical guitar. That's historic and contemporary usage.

However, I would suggest that if you really want to make the distinction that classical guitar refers to the genre, then it is the threads that refer to other than classical music and repertoire that should be moved, not the discussion section that should be renamed. There is another section, General Acoustic Guitar Discussion, that appropriately covers acoustic guitars of any string type.

So, if you really want to make the distinction you raise, move the threads, don't rename the discussion section. Leave this section for discussion of classical guitar and move the threads of discussion related to nylon string not related to the classical guitar repertoire, technique and genre to the general acoustic guitar section.
Bruce, FWIW, I'd agree with the OP and mc1 and another poster who listed several styles of music played on nylon string guitar.

In fact, in my knowledge and understanding of history of music and guitar building (and my history in guitar building takes me to Spain and links me with a builder whose guitars were played by Segovia and Bream, my history in learning the instrument includes lessons with some of the best classical teachers in Toronto and one of the founders of the Toronto guitar society - a tremendously influential group in "classical guitar"), the term "classical guitar" is relatively new - since the time of Segovia. Before Segovia, the guitar was called "Spanish" or "flamenco" guitar and wasn't considered a serious "classical" music instrument.

So I agree whole heartedly with the OP that "Nylon string guitar" is a more appropriate descriptor for this forum subsection.

That said, I am not so dogmatic and pedantic to chase the forum owners for a change to the title. But I do appreciate the OP's point.
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  #20  
Old 03-14-2015, 07:16 PM
brucefulton brucefulton is offline
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The time of Segovia is since the 1930s.

Suit yourself.
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  #21  
Old 03-15-2015, 01:27 PM
AfterViewer AfterViewer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucefulton View Post
The time of Segovia is since the 1930s.

Suit yourself.
Your post belongs in the Segovian Nomenclature subforum. Not to confuse.

Last edited by AfterViewer; 03-15-2015 at 01:36 PM.
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  #22  
Old 03-15-2015, 07:37 PM
brucefulton brucefulton is offline
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I'm not really sure what some of you all are getting at. Are you petitioning the owners of AGF to change the name of the section to nylon string instead of classical guitar?

That would be inaccurate. Much as one might argue otherwise, classical guitar is the broader term since there are guitars and other instruments in the class discussed in this forum that use or can be strung with gut, nylgut, or, more rarely, wire strings of certain gauges or combinations of nylon, gut, nylgut and wire strings.

There is nearly a century of usage for guitars of this class called classical guitars and players of classical guitars, designated as such, using them for many different styles of jazz, folk, country, crossover, samba, whatever.

Think Chet Atkins, Charlie Byrd, Yamandu Costa, Buster B Jones, Jerry Reed, John Knowles, Smokin Joe Robinson, Tommy Emmanuel, and many others. The instrument they have all played, and say they have played, when referring to such, is the classical guitar. Respect it.

We can start with the Gibson Chet Atkins CEC - Which stands for Classical Electrical Guitar - and drill into it from there, moving on to the Sands custom electrical Classical guitars.

I suspect that's why this section is called the Classical section. I think there should be a pretty good reason to change it.
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2015, 07:55 PM
ukejon ukejon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucefulton View Post
I'm not really sure what some of you all are getting at. Are you petitioning the owners of AGF to change the name of the section to nylon string instead of classical guitar?

That would be inaccurate. Much as one might argue otherwise, classical guitar is the broader term since there are guitars and other instruments in the class discussed in this forum that use or can be strung with gut, nylgut, or, more rarely, wire strings of certain gauges or combinations of nylon, gut, nylgut and wire strings.

There is nearly a century of usage for guitars of this class called classical guitars and players of classical guitars, designated as such, using them for many different styles of jazz, folk, country, crossover, samba, whatever.

Think Chet Atkins, Charlie Byrd, Yamandu Costa, Buster B Jones, Jerry Reed, John Knowles, Smokin Joe Robinson, Tommy Emmanuel, and many others. The instrument they have all played, and say they have played, when referring to such, is the classical guitar. Respect it.

We can start with the Gibson Chet Atkins CEC - Which stands for Classical Electrical Guitar - and drill into it from there, moving on to the Sands custom electrical Classical guitars.

I suspect that's why this section is called the Classical section. I think there should be a pretty good reason to change it.
Yes, that precisely is the question being asked. The players you reference did indeed play "classical" guitars (including very non-traditional nylon string electrics and crossovers) but they did not play classical music. The OP's point is interesting and valid....
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2015, 08:16 PM
brucefulton brucefulton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukejon View Post
Yes, that precisely is the question being asked. The players you reference did indeed play "classical" guitars (including very non-traditional nylon string electrics and crossovers) but they did not play classical music. The OP's point is interesting and valid....
The op is under the mistaken impression that the majority of threads are about hybrid guitars and therefore the term classical guitar is not appropriate.

1. The OP is fundamentally mistaken. There are still a majority of threads devoted to topics other than hybrid guitars per se including pure classical repertoire, classical guitar technique, guitar technique on classical guitars, guitar instruction, nylon/classical guitars in general and so on. A brief review of topic threads will confirm this.
2. The hybrid guitars are still called classical guitars, as evidenced by the Sands solid body electric cutaway guitars still being marketed as classical guitars, Gibson hybrid guitars sold as electric classical guitars, and other hybrid guitars marketed as classical or hybrid classical guitars.
3. Artists playing a variety of styles and guitars referring to the guitars they play as classical guitars.

Time to close this up?
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2015, 08:24 PM
brucefulton brucefulton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukejon View Post
Yes, that precisely is the question being asked. The players you reference did indeed play "classical" guitars (including very non-traditional nylon string electrics and crossovers) but they did not play classical music. The OP's point is interesting and valid....
A reminder of the OP quote:

"Since the majority of threads on this forum seem to deal with crossover and/or hybrid style guitars, would it be more honesty and informative to call this section "Nylon" rather than the somewhat misleading "Classical"?"

Um, nope.
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  #26  
Old 03-16-2015, 04:09 AM
ZippyChip ZippyChip is offline
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I bet there are plenty of real classical guitar players here.
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  #27  
Old 03-16-2015, 07:46 AM
Gitarre Gitarre is offline
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Well, I'm not a real classical player. In fact I'm a late fifth decade beginner with 16 months experience. I started with a steel string and I'm the happy owner of a new nylon Pono. (Yet again, than you ukejon for the exposure to this guitar). I could in no way contribute to the technical discussion going on here as any input of mine would be and should be summarily dismissed. However, considering my novice status, I can only say that a classification of "nylon" would be more intuitive and leave no question for users searching for information on any type of nylon string guitar.
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  #28  
Old 03-16-2015, 08:17 AM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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Originally Posted by Gitarre View Post
Well, I'm not a real classical player. In fact I'm a late fifth decade beginner with 16 months experience. I started with a steel string and I'm the happy owner of a new nylon Pono. (Yet again, than you ukejon for the exposure to this guitar). I could in no way contribute to the technical discussion going on here as any input of mine would be and should be summarily dismissed. However, considering my novice status, I can only say that a classification of "nylon" would be more intuitive and leave no question for users searching for information on any type of nylon string guitar.
+1 Well stated, IMOHO.
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  #29  
Old 03-16-2015, 08:22 AM
ukejon ukejon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucefulton View Post
The op is under the mistaken impression that the majority of threads are about hybrid guitars and therefore the term classical guitar is not appropriate.

1. The OP is fundamentally mistaken. There are still a majority of threads devoted to topics other than hybrid guitars per se including pure classical repertoire, classical guitar technique, guitar technique on classical guitars, guitar instruction, nylon/classical guitars in general and so on. A brief review of topic threads will confirm this.
2. The hybrid guitars are still called classical guitars, as evidenced by the Sands solid body electric cutaway guitars still being marketed as classical guitars, Gibson hybrid guitars sold as electric classical guitars, and other hybrid guitars marketed as classical or hybrid classical guitars.
3. Artists playing a variety of styles and guitars referring to the guitars they play as classical guitars.

Time to close this up?
So we should shut down any conversation about this, Bruce? Why? The OP raises a very valid and interesting question.

As to your points:

1) A brief review of page one of Classical reveals quite a range of topics beyond traditional "classical" guitars and music.

2) No, this is demonstrably inaccurate. In fact, you aren't even correct about Sands guitars, which on the main menu has two primary designations,"Nylon String Electric Guitars" and "Classic". Here is some additional information to consider: If the universal use of the term for a nylon string guitar is "classical" then why does Taylor use the category "Nylon" instead of "Classical" on their website and why is their N Series is called the "Nylon" Series? Or why does Breedlove describe their crossover as the "Pursuit Nylon"? Why does Martin call their crossover the "000C Nylon"? Why does Guild have the "Doyle Dykes Signature Nylon Cutaway Electric"? Why does Cordoba use the category "Nylon" instead of "Classical on their website? To the OP's observation, the prevalent word today is, in fact, "nylon" and not "classical".

3) This point probably can't be proven one way or the other. I play a crossover cutaway Pono guitar....not a classical guitar. And when I played a Godin Multiac that was not a classical guitar either.

The OP's observation may be correct that the term "Nylon" would be a better and clearer fit for AGF's main page.
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Last edited by ukejon; 03-16-2015 at 09:33 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-16-2015, 10:00 AM
Dave T Dave T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucefulton View Post
The op is under the mistaken impression that the majority of threads are about hybrid guitars and therefore the term classical guitar is not appropriate.
and

Quote:
The OP is fundamentally mistaken.
then finally

Quote:
Time to close this up?
I don't think Bruce likes me (LOL). And, he seems to be the authority here so let's all bow down and acknowledge his superior wisdom and opinion. Fare be it from me to start a conversation without his initial approval!

Dave
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