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  #1  
Old 03-01-2015, 08:05 AM
Dave T Dave T is offline
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Default Nylon vs Classical

To the moderators, owners and whoever is in charge:

Since the majority of threads on this forum seem to deal with crossover and/or hybrid style guitars, would it be more honesty and informative to call this section "Nylon" rather than the somewhat misleading "Classical"?

Just askin',
Dave
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  #2  
Old 03-01-2015, 08:18 AM
riffmeister riffmeister is offline
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.....or......

nylon/carbon/titanium/gut

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  #3  
Old 03-01-2015, 09:35 AM
ukejon ukejon is offline
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Nothing "Classical" ever gets played on my nylon string guitar!
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Old 03-01-2015, 10:24 AM
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But, that's not our problem!
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:35 AM
brucefulton brucefulton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
To the moderators, owners and whoever is in charge:

Since the majority of threads on this forum seem to deal with crossover and/or hybrid style guitars, would it be more honesty and informative to call this section "Nylon" rather than the somewhat misleading "Classical"?

Just askin',
Dave
Classical guitar is commonly used to refer both to the guitar and to the repertoire and to the style of playing. Many words have more than one meaning and sense of usage. This is a polyseme (more applicable here than homonym), a word or phrase with different, but related senses. There is nothing really to do about it. The different senses of the word classical guitar are all correct.
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:40 AM
mc1 mc1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucefulton View Post
Classical guitar is commonly used to refer both to the guitar and to the repertoire and to the style of playing. Many words have more than one meaning and sense of usage. This is a polyseme (more applicable here than homonym), a word or phrase with different, but related senses. There is nothing really to do about it. The different senses of the word classical guitar are all correct.
i think dave is pointing out that for many of the threads in the classical subforum, none of the 3 definitions of "classical" apply.
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:00 PM
ukejon ukejon is offline
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Originally Posted by mc1 View Post
i think dave is pointing out that for many of the threads in the classical subforum, none of the 3 definitions of "classical" apply.
In which case "classical" would not be a polyseme but instead a rare "nadaseme" or a "nonoseme", right?
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2015, 12:02 PM
mc1 mc1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukejon View Post
In which case "classical" would not be a polyseme but instead a rare "nadaseme" or a "nonoseme", right?
yes, or "naughtaseme".
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Old 03-01-2015, 01:46 PM
Dave T Dave T is offline
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Thanks mc1. At least someone got the point I was trying to make.

Dave
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Old 03-01-2015, 05:35 PM
brucefulton brucefulton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc1 View Post
i think dave is pointing out that for many of the threads in the classical subforum, none of the 3 definitions of "classical" apply.
Such as? Classical guitar is a polyseme for nylon string guitar. So all the threads that apply to nylon string guitar but not to classical music or classical repertoire are included in the definition of classical guitar. Really.

It's pretty simple to ignore the threads you don't want to read. Or do we really need to set up a "Nylon String Guitar but not Classical Guitar If You Know What I Mean" section?
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Old 03-01-2015, 06:22 PM
mc1 mc1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucefulton View Post
Such as? Classical guitar is a polyseme for nylon string guitar. So all the threads that apply to nylon string guitar but not to classical music or classical repertoire are included in the definition of classical guitar. Really.

It's pretty simple to ignore the threads you don't want to read. Or do we really need to set up a "Nylon String Guitar but not Classical Guitar If You Know What I Mean" section?
i wouldn't say that all nylon string guitars are classical guitars. but that's just my opinion. nylon would appear to more encompassing a term.

however, not all classical guitars are strung with nylon strings, so nylon isn't completely encompassing.
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Old 03-01-2015, 06:39 PM
brucefulton brucefulton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc1 View Post
i wouldn't say that all nylon string guitars are classical guitars. but that's just my opinion. nylon would appear to more encompassing a term.

however, not all classical guitars are strung with nylon strings, so nylon isn't completely encompassing.
Well, you are killing your own argument. I suppose it would be possible to take a Godin ACS-SA, load it up with repro gut strings, plug it into a Roland synth, play a riff on Downland's Lacrimae written for Lute, notated in tab, with Marshall overdrive settings, harmonize it on a looper using Christopher Parkening's Sherry Brenner Ramirez 1a that you've outfitted with a Fishman DI box and then you want to ***** about the title of the discussion section?

Can we just get back to business?
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2015, 07:56 PM
ukejon ukejon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucefulton View Post
Such as? Classical guitar is a polyseme for nylon string guitar. So all the threads that apply to nylon string guitar but not to classical music or classical repertoire are included in the definition of classical guitar. Really.

It's pretty simple to ignore the threads you don't want to read. Or do we really need to set up a "Nylon String Guitar but not Classical Guitar If You Know What I Mean" section?
Dave T and mc1 raise a valid and interesting point. These days, the descriptor "Classical" is more precisely a subset of "Nylon", as are many other types of nylon string guitar as well:

* Gypsy Jazz (Gitane, etc)
* Archtop (Slaman, etc)
* Folk (Takamine, etc)
* Flamenco (many makers)
* Crossover (many makers)
* Solid Body (ESP, etc)
* Travel/"Silent" (Yamaha, etc)
* Tenor (Greg Miller, etc)

The common denominator is the use of nylon strings. Not sure that lumping them all under the term "Classical" makes sense any more.
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My YouTube Page:
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2009 Pono koa parlor (NAMM prototype)
2014 Pono N30 DC EIR/Spruce crossover
2014 Hatcher Greta 13 fret cutaway in EIR/cedar
2017 Hatcher Josie fan fret mahogany
1973 Sigma GCR7 (OM model) rosewood and spruce
2014 Rainsong OM1000N2

....and about 5 really nice tenor ukuleles at any given moment

Last edited by ukejon; 03-01-2015 at 08:59 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-02-2015, 07:24 AM
Dave T Dave T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukejon View Post
Dave T and mc1 raise a valid and interesting point. These days, the descriptor "Classical" is more precisely a subset of "Nylon", as are many other types of nylon string guitar as well:

* Gypsy Jazz (Gitane, etc)
* Archtop (Slaman, etc)
* Folk (Takamine, etc)
* Flamenco (many makers)
* Crossover (many makers)
* Solid Body (ESP, etc)
* Travel/"Silent" (Yamaha, etc)
* Tenor (Greg Miller, etc)

The common denominator is the use of nylon strings. Not sure that lumping them all under the term "Classical" makes sense any more.
Thanks to ukejon as well. You have struck the nail upon the flat part!

Dave
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  #15  
Old 03-02-2015, 07:25 AM
ZippyChip ZippyChip is offline
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"Classical" to me means that it is historically similar to the first modern style guitars made long ago.
Even if I played only punk rock on it it would still be a classical guitar. That is my understanding of the meaning behind the name.
However, I also refer to it as "Nylon" when it may be too confusing or misunderstood by the listener.
Also consider what it looks like when you use "classical" technique while playing a non-classical piece of music. You could be still be considered classical guitar payer except for not playing a classical piece of music.
Short story for me is it is still a classical guitar.
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