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  #16  
Old 10-29-2013, 10:22 PM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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Originally Posted by FrankHS View Post
So much gentleness? Why?
You don't want to "over stretch" the string, as you will be going up and down the fretboard several times stretching different spots each time. If you use a heavy hand, you will have areas of the string that are over stretched and other areas that might not be stretched enough. Using a light touch reduces the chance of this occurring, and your strings will last a lot longer when stretched evenly over the entire string.

Glen
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  #17  
Old 10-30-2013, 03:22 AM
dneal dneal is offline
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At the headstock, each string should be wound from the inside of the post outward...

If you wind from outside in, the string will not seat correctly in the nut...
I think you'll find winding toward the inside (center) is much more common for the A, D, G and B strings, in order to minimize the angle and prevent any binding in the nut. The E strings are usually wound to the outside (for the same reason).
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  #18  
Old 10-30-2013, 05:51 AM
Dogsnax Dogsnax is offline
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Originally Posted by dneal View Post
I think you'll find winding toward the inside (center) is much more common for the A, D, G and B strings, in order to minimize the angle and prevent any binding in the nut. The E strings are usually wound to the outside (for the same reason).
+1...........
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  #19  
Old 10-30-2013, 06:03 AM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dneal View Post
I think you'll find winding toward the inside (center) is much more common for the A, D, G and B strings, in order to minimize the angle and prevent any binding in the nut. The E strings are usually wound to the outside (for the same reason).
I know that there are many that do that, probably because somebody told them that the string should take the "straightest" path to the post. This is partly because there is so much misinformation (opinions) being disseminated, but that just means they're doing it wrong. If the nut slots are cut correctly, winding from the inside out does not cause any binding of the strings over the nut, and minimizing the angle will often cause a string to go a few cents flat and weaken the volume and tone.

And one should wonder, if winding from outside inward was a better way, does that would mean that professional classical guitarists are all doing it wrong???

Glen
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  #20  
Old 10-30-2013, 06:24 AM
Dogsnax Dogsnax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishrogue View Post
I know that there are many that do that, probably because somebody told them that the string should take the "straightest" path to the post. This is partly because there is so much misinformation (opinions) being disseminated, but that just means they're doing it wrong. If the nut slots are cut correctly, winding from the inside out does not cause any binding of the strings over the nut, and minimizing the angle will often cause a string to go a few cents flat and weaken the volume and tone.

And one should wonder, if winding from outside inward was a better way, does that would mean that professional classical guitarists are all doing it wrong???

Glen
Hey Glen,

I like to wind the E strings towards the outside for a different reason - it seems to make more room for the A, D, G, and B strings. I'm not too concerned about the straightest path to the post. It's all good....

Fred
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  #21  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:14 AM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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Fred, something I forgot to mention in my previous post...when the D & G strings are wound toward the inside, they often make contact with and rub against the wood on the slot in the peghead. This causes problems with the tuning and can cause unnecessary wear to the string that can damage the peghead or weaken the string, especially when there are too many winds on the post. That is because on most tuning posts, the hole is located right in the center of the post.

I might sound like a "classical snob" even though I am not. I use the "Taylor method" and they specifically state winding from the inside out. I do use a "trick" to anchor the treble strings, to prevent slippage, which I discovered long ago, which I have never seen demonstrated in any video, and if anyone is interested I'd be more than happy to share. I do admit to using that kind of information (improper string installations) to my advantage when I am sizing up a seller (when I negotiate the price of a used guitar), as it will occasionally get me a much better deal. Just sayin'...

Glen
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Last edited by scottishrogue; 10-30-2013 at 09:34 AM.
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  #22  
Old 10-30-2013, 09:25 AM
dneal dneal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishrogue View Post
I know that there are many that do that, probably because somebody told them that the string should take the "straightest" path to the post. This is partly because there is so much misinformation (opinions) being disseminated, but that just means they're doing it wrong. If the nut slots are cut correctly, winding from the inside out does not cause any binding of the strings over the nut, and minimizing the angle will often cause a string to go a few cents flat and weaken the volume and tone.

And one should wonder, if winding from outside inward was a better way, does that would mean that professional classical guitarists are all doing it wrong???

Glen
And your opinion isn't an opinion or misinformation being disseminated because... ?

The "professional classical guitars" bit is unsupported. Look at John Williams' "Echoes of Spain" cover. Not wound as you say. Dake Traphagen (a luthier rather than guitarist, since you mentioned proper cutting of nut slots) has guitars displayed on his site that are not wound as you suggest. Just two quick examples...

Look, I don't care how you wind your strings. There's no reason to be so presumptious as to assert the rest of us are doing it incorrectly.
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  #23  
Old 10-30-2013, 10:01 AM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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Originally Posted by dneal View Post
And your opinion isn't an opinion or misinformation being disseminated because... ?
Dneal, you make an excellent point. I'm surprised that John Williams guitar is not done the way I recommended, but I doubt if he personally is stringing his own guitar, but more likely a student or assistant. I could be wrong, but that is how I see it.

While I am well aware that everyone is free to develop their own techniques, as well as to draw their own conclusions from the banter that is exchanged here on the AGF. I am merely passing on information that I have collected over 50 years. If you, or anyone chooses to question the accuracy of my statements, I encourage that. If they choose to ignore my recommendations, that's fine too. I'm only the messenger, attempting to educate anyone who is interested in expanding their knowledge.

On this thread, I am only interested in pointing out several possibilities why it might take longer for their strings to settle. The information I provide (while only my own opinions) has been corroborated by multiple sources, and the conclusions I have drawn and disseminate are from many hours of research.

Glen
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  #24  
Old 10-30-2013, 10:04 AM
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WaddyT WaddyT is offline
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Streching strings by hand can ruin intonation capabilities of the string by causing uneven stretching?
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  #25  
Old 10-30-2013, 10:32 AM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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Originally Posted by WaddyT View Post
Streching strings by hand can ruin intonation capabilities of the string by causing uneven stretching?
That is true if done too strenuously, and that's why I recommend a light hand and multiple stretching completely up and down the fretboard. And, manually stretching the strings will allow them to settle faster.

Glen
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  #26  
Old 10-30-2013, 01:10 PM
sigma0015s sigma0015s is offline
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Originally Posted by WaddyT View Post
Streching strings by hand can ruin intonation capabilities of the string by causing uneven stretching?
Exactly, its the quickest way to ruin a strings intonation, yes the tuning will settle quicker but what good is that if the intonation is shot.
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  #27  
Old 10-30-2013, 02:00 PM
scottishrogue scottishrogue is offline
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Originally Posted by sigma0015s View Post
Exactly, its the quickest way to ruin a strings intonation, yes the tuning will settle quicker but what good is that if the intonation is shot.
If it affects the intonation the way that has been suggested, why then do most technicians recommend stretching the strings? It makes no sense, as they have nothing to gain. If it has any negative effect, I would certainly think they would be telling people of the danger. I have a number of classical guitars and have not personally noticed a change in the intonation from gently stretching the strings. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that I have seen no evidence of it, and I have never heard anyone before, make that claim. So, I'm not buying it.

If you can provide me with a supporting documents from a respected source for the claim, I'd be very interested.

Glen
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  #28  
Old 10-31-2013, 11:40 AM
Garthman Garthman is offline
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Don't anybody mention "ball-end" nylon strings!?!?!?!
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  #29  
Old 10-31-2013, 12:22 PM
rgregg48 rgregg48 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaddyT View Post
Streching strings by hand can ruin intonation capabilities of the string by causing uneven stretching?
That is correct

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  #30  
Old 10-31-2013, 12:47 PM
dneal dneal is offline
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Originally Posted by Garthman View Post
Don't anybody mention "ball-end" nylon strings!?!?!?!
You do know those are high-tension and will ruin a classical, don't you?

smileyomittedonpurposesoastonotruinthejoke
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