ANOTHER PROBLEM?!?!?!?!?

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Getting straight to the point: I bought this balanced cable (1/4 to 1/4) to hear any difference between it and an unbalanced cable. For now, the difference is there, but kind of subtle; but that's not what moved to write this. When I played the cable with my Taylor, everything was fine; but when I played it with my Ovation (OP-Pro preamp), it ONLY worked when I engaged the tuner. How come?

[Gordon Currie]

You are misinformed on when to use a balanced cable.

You do not use one with an instrument.

They are always used with microphones.

Stop using it with your guitar and you won't have the problem.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

You are misinformed on when to use a balanced cable.

You do not use one with an instrument.

They are always used with microphones.

Stop using it with your guitar and you won't have the problem.

Some guitars with active electronics od indeed have an XLR output connector and use a balanced cable.

This isn't the case with the OP using a balanced 1/4", but you DO sometimes use one with an instrument.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

You are misinformed on when to use a balanced cable.

You do not use one with an instrument.

They are always used with microphones.

Stop using it with your guitar and you won't have the problem.

I think you are the one misinformed. Actually, there are balanced cables for instruments. Like I already said, I used that cable with my Taylor with no problems. The "problem" was with the Ovation, in which it only works when I turn on the tuner. It's like using the tuner doesn't cancel the signal, but when I don't use it, it does.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

Getting straight to the point: I bought this balanced cable (1/4 to 1/4) to hear any difference between it and an unbalanced cable.

Does the guitar have a balanced output?

For now, the difference is there, but kind of subtle; but that's not what moved to write this. When I played the cable with my Taylor, everything was fine; but when I played it with my Ovation (OP-Pro preamp), it ONLY worked when I engaged the tuner. How come?

Could be the preamp is relying on a TS jack (unbalanced) to make the switch connection on the preamp; no connection - no signal, but the tuner is designed to work when the guitar isn't plugged in (I'm guessing here) and has it's own switching system which also engages the preamp.

Either way, if the signal isn't balanced then a balanced cable is not appropriate.

[dnf777]

Why do you want a balanced trs cable for a guitar? I agree with Gordon, with very rare exceptions. Unless the pre-amp specifically is designed for a balanced output, I would stick with a standard TS instrument cable. You can add a di if needed for long runs.

[Rudy4]

FYI, There are several reasons why Balanced XLR might be used on various instruments and there are also a bunch of output jack configurations that use a TRS 1/4" jack to route two different signals from the guitar to a preamp. Many of these use the tip and ring for a bridge or saddle transducer and a separate internal microphone.

The OP most likely has some configuration that does use a TRS cable (it's not really a "balanced cable", as that is used to minimize picking up EMF or RFI "noise" on the way to preamp or amplification stages.

Many of these also require the correct plug configuration to switch the battery circuit on, so that's a possibility as to why things aren't working correctly for the OP.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

Getting straight to the point: I bought this balanced cable (1/4 to 1/4) to hear any difference between it and an unbalanced cable. For now, the difference is there, but kind of subtle; but that's not what moved to write this. When I played the cable with my Taylor, everything was fine; but when I played it with my Ovation (OP-Pro preamp), it ONLY worked when I engaged the tuner. How come?

I'd make a guess that engaging the tuner automatically switches the power on that also runs to your internal electronics.

You should check each manufacturer's website and / or product manuals to find out exactly what system you have and use the correct cable for each.

Many of these systems run various output configurations, so it's best to use what they are meant to utilize.

[Captain Jim]

I use a TRS (balanced) cable with my Emerald X10 with Level 2 pickups. Used with a Y-adapter, I can run the Krivo humbucking pickup to an amp and the individual piezo pickups to an acoustic amp.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Does the guitar have a balanced output?



Could be the preamp is relying on a TS jack (unbalanced) to make the switch connection on the preamp; no connection - no signal, but the tuner is designed to work when the guitar isn't plugged in (I'm guessing here) and has it's own switching system which also engages the preamp.

Either way, if the signal isn't balanced then a balanced cable is not appropriate.

No. It doesn't have an XLR output, although some "modern" Ovation guitars do. It has the standard 1/4 output jack.

It's probably a preamp thing. Yes, the turner works plugged or unplugged.

I tried the "balanced" cable to see if I could get a bit more output (don't ask me why) from the ES1 in my DN3e. I could notice just a bit more highs from my Taylor; but besides that, not that much difference. Then again, I'll wait for playing it in different venues. And definitely won't use the cable with my Ovation.

[M Hayden]

TRS cables are usually used for multiple pickups with a common ground. I’ve got a Taylor 312 with the stereo Fishman and it can use TS or TRS, but not balanced line.

...that said, there’s a version of the Trance Amulet that uses a TRS-to-XLR cable to get phantom power to power the preamp. But that’s kind of a one-off, and far from common.

[Doug Young]

It seems like people are forgetting that Taylors with the ES1 supported a TRS balanced cable. Taylor was pushing for a new standard, and it didn't go over very well. The intent was to be able to plug into low impedance balanced inputs on a mixer without a DI.

So the TRS (aka "balanced") cable works fine with the Taylor. However, some jacks that expect mono don't work well with a TRS cable. It all depends on where the ground contacts and power-switching contacts hit on the plug. Some guitars that take a mono plug will take a TRS plug fine (tho there's no benefit, they aren't using the 2nd wire), and some preamps will accept them without trouble. Others won't... Why this would only work on the Ovation with the tuner turned on is anyone's guess, we'd have to see the jack involved and the onboard electronics. I've run into this kind of situation a lot, since I normally run in stereo with dual source pickups and use TRS cables. Once in a while I grab a TRS cable and plug into a single-source mono guitar and it doesn't work, annoying but perfectly understandable.

Bottom line is, there's no benefit to using a TRS cable unless both the guitar and what you're plugging into expect it and take advantage of it.

[EZYPIKINS]

Ovation has a switching Jack that I'm told is in Older Peavey as well It's kind of a strange thing to me. But my Dad was replacing one. So he asked me to research it for him. I'm guessing that the way Ovation wires these things is why you are having the problem. Juse use a Mono shielded cable. If you are looking for more quality try Mogami, Canare,
Myself, live I use Monster. Studio George L's. Although recording acoustic I use mic.

[EZYPIKINS]

Ovation has a switching Jack that I'm told is in Older Peavey as well It's kind of a strange thing to me. But my Dad was replacing one. So he asked me to research it for him. I'm guessing that the way Ovation wires these things is why you are having the problem. Juse use a Mono shielded cable. If you are looking for more quality try Mogami, Canare,
Myself, live I use Monster. Studio George L's. Although recording acoustic I use mic.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Does the guitar have a balanced output?

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

No. It doesn't have an XLR output,

That's really the answer to a different question. It's perfectly possible (as Doug suggests) to have a balanced signal on a 1/4" jack without it looking odd, it's just TRS instead of TS which wouldn't be obvious from outside. Most electros I've dealt with have actually been TRS but the "extra" tag is used for shorting the earth to switch the preamp rather than carrying signal or (as M Hayden suggests) to carry signals from multiple sources. This being the case it would be odd (but not impossible) to have both switching/multiple/balanced output.