How to Detect French Polish

[Rocky Dijohn]

I have an old parlor-size guitar c. 1920 and the marketing literature from that time says it has French Polish. I have no idea what that even is/was. After all this time someone in the last 100 years might have used some different polish anyway. Questions:
1. What is "French Polish"?
2. How do I tell whether my guitar still has "French Polish" or if it was changed along the way?
3. If it has migrated away from "French Polish", and I bounce it back? Pros/Cons?
4. How best to care for it now?

thanks for any input, gang.

[rob2966]

Hey,

French polish is more of a technique than a product. It is a method of applying shellac by hand using many coats. It is still popular among higher end nylon/classical instruments.

Advantages are it goes on very thin (some say improves tone) and it can also be repaired easily (assuming you know the techniques)

Disadvantages are it easier to damage and labour intensive (expensive) to apply.

Not sure how to tell if a finish is still original though, can't help you there.

Later
Rob

[Rodger Knox]

As rob said, French Polish is not really a polish at all. It is a spirit varnish (shellac dissolved in alcohol) applied by hand, and is more labor intensive than modern sprayed finishes. It may be the only finish that adds more stiffness than weight, and it's usually about half the thickness of other finishes, so there is a possibility of improved tone.

While it is not as durable as most modern finishes, it is not nearly as fragile as you might expect, and it hardens with age for about 70+years. It is also quite easy to repair until it has fully cured, with new shellac "burning in" to the old shellac.

You could check under a tuner, alcohol will soften French polish. If it's that old, it may take a while, and it may not soften enough to tell.

If it's been refinished, the newer finish could be removed and refinished with French polish.

As for caring for it, a good paste wax every few years and it's good to go.

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by Rodger Knox

You could check under a tuner, alcohol will soften French polish. If it's that old, it may take a while, and it may not soften enough to tell.

With a nod to my fellow PE, alcohol will also soften nitrocellulose, at least the nitro that Martin uses / used. I found that out the hard way a long time ago.

[Erithon]

Originally Posted by Rocky Dijohn

1. What is "French Polish"?
2. How do I tell whether my guitar still has "French Polish" or if it was changed along the way?
3. If it has migrated away from "French Polish", and I bounce it back? Pros/Cons?
4. How best to care for it now?

1. See above. But I'll add Ervin Somogyi's opinion to the thread:

"About my finishes: all my guitars are French polished unless my client wants something different. It's the thinnest finish I know of outside of an oil finish, and the French polish loads the face only minimally. Lacquer, the polyurethanes, etc. all damp the top, and therefore the guitars' sound.

People may point out that French polishes are the most fragile and easy to scratch of the finishes, and I wouldn't argue with that. However, my forte is guitars with good response. As such, my attitude is that the job of the finish is to protect the wood from fluctuations in the weather and humidity. Its job is not to protect the guitar from the player."

2. It should be fairly obvious. There is a big feel difference between a French Polished finish and nitro or poly. Not only are the latter thicker, but they are harder and smoother. A French Polish feels a little rougher and as a result one's fingers will slide across it easier (think satin vs. gloss, though I am NOT saying French Polish is like satin--just using those more common materials to give you a point of comparison). Plus they'll look different. I don't know how to describe this to you so I suggest you take it in to someone knowledge.

3. It almost certainly hasn't migrated away. Those old parlors simply aren't worth the expenditure of time and money. Someone would have had to sand off the original finish and then refinish it with something else. If this has been done, you would need to pay someone to do the same in order to undo it.

4. Wipe it down after you play with a microfiber cloth. And, if you want, have the French Polish finished touched up by someone who know what they are doing. The finish is MEANT to be periodically cared for. And those old parlors don't have much resale value so no one will care if the finish is original or not.

[Bob Womack]

Say, "Bonjour!" quite loudly into the sound hole.


Bob

[Rosewood99]

I have two guitars with French Polish. While it may be easy to repair good luck finding someone who can do it. I live in Savannah GA and had no luck. I tried Charleston, Jacksonville and Atlanta. Could not find one person. To go further out would be cost prohibitive with shipping.

While mine are beautiful, they do scratch easily (and the high gloss magnifies it) and If I had to do it again I would not have gone with FP.

[Alan Carruth]

I'm not a big fan of wax or polish on a guitar, and particularly on FP. Just keep it clean. Te best cleaner is elbow grease, freely applied using a soft, slightly damp cloth; an old T-short is ideal. If the surface is greasy you can add just a drop of dish detergent to a pint or so of water. This will get anything, eventually.

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

I'm not a big fan of wax or polish on a guitar, and particularly on FP. Just keep it clean. Te best cleaner is elbow grease, freely applied using a soft, slightly damp cloth; an old T-short is ideal. If the surface is greasy you can add just a drop of dish detergent to a pint or so of water. This will get anything, eventually.

I would not recommend dish detergent (however small) on FP.

[nitram]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

I would not recommend dish detergent (however small) on FP.

How about nitro?

[JonWint]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

I would not recommend dish detergent (however small) on FP.

Why would that be a problem? Shellac on my fingernails survives multiple showers and dish washing.

I use naphtha on my shellac-finished guitars (9 of them) for the difficult crude. Damp cloth for normal cleaning.

I don't bother with final increasing-grade polishing and waxing on newly FP finished guitars. I'm happy with off-the-pad finish. If needed, I'll touch up the new builds in a year or so.

Will only rarely do spot touch-up on antique Martins.

[RJVB]

I presume you can get a vial of product for cleaning violins, e.g. Hill & Sons varnish cleaner, or this:

http://www.hmb-bda.fr/en-super-nikco.php

But use it sparingly, when a damp old cotton rag isn't enough (chances are you won't ever get a layer of rosin on your finish as bowed instruments will and even that can be avoided by wiping the stuff off before it cakes)

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

I'm not a big fan of wax or polish on a guitar, and particularly on FP. Just keep it clean. Te best cleaner is elbow grease, freely applied using a soft, slightly damp cloth; an old T-short is ideal. If the surface is greasy you can add just a drop of dish detergent to a pint or so of water. This will get anything, eventually.

Originally Posted by paulzoom

I would not recommend dish detergent (however small) on FP.

Why would you recommend against a drop of dish detergent diluted in water to clean a French Polish finish?

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by nitram

How about nitro?

Sure. I don't think Nitro is nearly as delicate.

[Steve DeRosa]

Frederic Chopin was French-Polish...