NGD, Failed Experiment, and Decision to Make

[TokyoNeko]

Ever since parting with the Yamaha CSF3M, mainly because of its excessively short scale length, I had been looking for a travel guitar with at least a 24.5" scale length and as small a footprint as possible. I sought to find something not made in China (I'll call it a personal choice and leave it at that), so I was pretty short in choices. A friend of mine in Korea told me about a possible candidate and a low-cost risk, so I threw down about $220 (including shipping) for this:

Website (in Korean, but you get the idea from the pictures)

I will include the pictures I took on the next post.

The entire neck/body is made of Nato (except the rosewood fretboard/bridge). The scale (which I measured myself) is 25.5", and the nut width is about 1 23/32". The body is 1" thick (not including the fretboard/bridge).

Because its body does not protrude much beyond the strings and has no lap rest, it took a while getting used to play it at somewhat stable positions. I definitely need a strap, regardless of sitting or standing. Hooking the strap on the strap button near the 14th fret doesn't help stability one bit, so I took that strap button off (as it kept on poking me) and tied one end of the strap near the headstock.

While standing, I need the right forearm to rest near the top corner of the back of the bridge. While sitting, I can either do the same as standing, or put the bridge end of the guitar on my right thigh and play in a position similar to the "classical" position. In any position, the neck does move around just a tad whenever my left hand moves up and down the fretboard, so I have to be constantly cognizant of the balance when playing. So in the 10+ days since I got this guitar, whenever I switch from this guitar to one of my OMs, I can INSTANTLY feel how easier it is to play, just from the stability perspective alone.

Something else I wanted to do with this guitar was to place a pickup to use with an amp or a PA. Instinctively, I knew that a lack of a soundboard meant that a passive stick-on pickup would not be able to deliver as much volume as on a "regular" guitar. And given the structural limits, it's pretty much impossible to install most UST pickups in the market. But I felt like experimenting, so I tried the Barcus Berry 1457 and the KNA UP-1. And sure enough, neither of them delivered enough volume to make it useful, even when I employed this premap/DI box. I could technically get the necessary volume by turning up the gain to the max, but that also brought undesired noise/feedback, which made the whole thing sound pretty terrible.

So this little guitar is relegated to being a practice guitar at best, and in truth, this is what the guitar manufacturer intended in the first place. I just tried to make something else of it, which didn't work out. Now the question I need to ask myself is whether I should use this guitar for practice/travel on a long-term basis. I'm trying to figure out whether the "difficult" practice sessions on this guitar will make me a better player with the other guitars I have, or if I'm running a risk of developing bad habits that will do me more harm than good. Given what I described above, if you could provide your input on the poll, that would be very much appreciated. Thanks all in advance.

<P.S.> I'll probably be in the market soon for a parlor guitar (with the scale length of at least 24.5") to make good use of the Barcus Berry pickup. Unless I find another alternative, it may very well end up being a Godin parlor.

[TokyoNeko]

Here're the pics that I took.

[Jaden]

I voted yes, just to offer an affirmative opinion whereas the third option in your poll is probably most realistic as only you know the intimate feel of this instrument. You haven’t mentioned volume or tone so I don’t know about that; you also say it’s easy to play but also describe it as difficult for practice - I’m not sure I’ve understood you correctly.

Practicing whenever possible is a good idea to improve skill, in my view, and your two other guitars look like fine, high quality instruments not quite suited to travel conditions, is my impression.

[TokyoNeko]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I voted yes, just to offer an affirmative opinion whereas the third option in your poll is probably most realistic as only you know the intimate feel of this instrument. You haven’t mentioned volume or tone so I don’t know about that; you also say it’s easy to play but also describe it as difficult for practice - I’m not sure I’ve understood you correctly.

I appreciate the affirmation. As for volume and tone, there's pretty much none. All you hear is strings vibrating, with no resonance from the wood whatsoever. When I say "easy to play," it's when I transition from playing this practice guitar to one of my OMs. The OMs are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to play.

Originally Posted by Jaden

Practicing whenever possible is a good idea to improve skill, in my view, and your two other guitars look like fine, high quality instruments not quite suited to travel conditions, is my impression.

Yes, I have no intention of taking my OMs on any long-distance trip whatsoever. But now I will need to look for another option if I need to travel with a guitar that has any significant acoustic volume and can be plugged in if necessary. I was hoping to kill two birds with one stone with this practice guitar and an external pickup, but it wasn't meant to be.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by TokyoNeko

I appreciate the affirmation. As for volume and tone, there's pretty much none. All you hear is strings vibrating, with no resonance from the wood whatsoever. When I say "easy to play," it's when I transition from playing this practice guitar to one of my OMs. The OMs are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to play.


Yes, I have no intention of taking my OMs on any long-distance trip whatsoever. But now I will need to look for another option if I need to travel with a guitar that has any significant acoustic volume and can be plugged in if necessary. I was hoping to kill two birds with one stone with this practice guitar and an external pickup, but it wasn't meant to be.

Ok, thanks for the clarification; I can’t change my vote on the poll after the fact, but if I could, would change it to “no” - having something uncomfortable isn’t worthwhile with the many other options available. I’ve heard good things about the Yamaha silent guitar models, but I guess they’re made in China.

For myself, now that my FS800 has been confiscated by a friend (humor), I’ll be looking for a classical guitar with solid top for taking to the beach, etc.

[charles Tauber]

Essentially, what you have is a Martin Backpacker, minus the small air chamber. In my opinion, they were unplayable and, other than having 6 strings and a guitar-like neck, had little resemblance to what we think of as a guitar.

A customer of mine purchased a "travel guitar" made in France. (I'd have to look up the name.) He purchased it to play while sitting in a truck, something that often happened with his job. It was somewhat similar to your Korean purchase. It did have a small air chamber, giving it some volume, but, in my opinion, didn't really work on any level, not the least of which was setup.

My experience with both of those is that I had to struggle with the ergonomics of it them to play them. That could only install habits unique to that arrangement and habits that are not desirable, not the least of which was too much physical tension needed to hold the instrument stable while attempting to play it. I wouldn't waste any further time with it. But, that's just me.

[TokyoNeko]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Ok, thanks for the clarification; I can’t change my vote on the poll after the fact, but if I could, would change it to “no” - having something uncomfortable isn’t worthwhile with the many other options available.

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

My experience with both of those is that I had to struggle with the ergonomics of it them to play them. That could only install habits unique to that arrangement and habits that are not desirable, not the least of which was too much physical tension needed to hold the instrument stable while attempting to play it. I wouldn't waste any further time with it. But, that's just me.

These comments are consistent with the poll results thus far. I might give it a few more days, but if it doesn't work out, I might have to chalk it up as a $200+ experiment.

Originally Posted by Jaden

I’ve heard good things about the Yamaha silent guitar models, but I guess they’re made in China.

For myself, now that my FS800 has been confiscated by a friend (humor), I’ll be looking for a classical guitar with solid top for taking to the beach, etc.

If the Silent Guitar were made in Japan (or even somewhere else in Asia) one might already be in my possession.

Be that as it may, Yamaha's guitars (regardless of origin) are wonderful. You might want to come up with a rescue plan for your FS800.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by TokyoNeko

These comments are consistent with the poll results thus far. I might give it a few more days, but if it doesn't work out, I might have to chalk it up as a $200+ experiment.



If the Silent Guitar were made in Japan (or even somewhere else in Asia) one might already be in my possession.

Be that as it may, Yamaha's guitars (regardless of origin) are wonderful. You might want to come up with a rescue plan for your FS800.

The Silent Guitar is an excellent concept and very well executed; it sounds great too. I'm not sure what your objection is.

[Rosewood99]

Not sure if they have short scale but Is a voyage air a possibility?

[TokyoNeko]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

The Silent Guitar is an excellent concept and very well executed; it sounds great too. I'm not sure what your objection is.

Sorry, but if I specify my reason any further, I would be violating forum rules.

Originally Posted by paulzoom

Not sure if they have short scale but Is a voyage air a possibility?

Voyage Air is way too bulky, even when folded inside the bag. Similar options would include the Furch Little Jane or the Brunner, which would be quite expensive.

[SpruceTop]

If you could live with a 24-inch scale length, I can recommend the Martin Dreadnought Junior. Mine is a 2016 model and I've put a B-Band A1.2 AST pickup/preamp in it. The guitar sounds really nice acoustically and plugged-in. It has quite a full resonance that most parlor guitars I've ever played don't have--it doesn't sound boxy and flat. Be aware that the newest Martin D Junior has a less thick top-to-back body dimension and this may not have the resonance of a pre-2019 model. You can order a Martin D Junior with or without electronics.

Here is my review from December 2016:

About a week ago, I received my Martin Dreadnought Junior (solid Spruce/solid Sapele), and I'm loving it! I ordered from Sweetwater but should have ordered from one of our AGF sponsors, Maury's Music, because Maury is offering a free Martin Hardshell Case with his selection of Martin Dreadnought Juniors. Frankly, a hardshell case would be a plus for the Junior as the included Martin Gig Bag is somewhat lacking in padding and stiffness! Contrast the Martin D Junior's gig bag with a Taylor GS Mini's well-padded and semi-hard gig bag, and all I can say is, "C'mon, Chris, Get In The Game!"

I chose my Martin D Junior from three others in Sweetwater's Acoustic Guitar Gallery, which enables perusal of several excellent views and close-ups of presented guitars, and enabled me to choose what I considered the one with the best-looking tonewoods.

As for the Martin D Junior itself, it's a well-constructed, Made In Mexico Martin (my first MIM Martin), and it sounds and plays superb right out the shipping carton. The solid Sitka Spruce top is, well, TOPS, with a straight, medium-wide, evenly-spaced, and almost vertical through the top grain. The solid Sapele back and sides have a straight grain and are well bookmatched. The tone of the Martin D Junior is quite full for a smaller guitar. I recommend that folks looking for a parlor guitar audition a Martin D Junior as it can be a lower-cost and better-sounding alternative in that it doesn't sound as shallow and boxy as some more costly parlor guitars.

I'm about to install a B-Band A1.2N-1470 Pickup/Preamp system in this guitar and look forward to hearing it's amplified tone. By the way, the Martin D Junior and Taylor GS Mini (also MIM) are professional-grade instruments and can be used as such. My new Taylor GS Mini-e Koa with its Expression System 2 sounds wonderful when amplified and I'm expecting my Martin D Junior with its B-Band system to sound great too. The Martin D Junior is also offered with a Fishman Sonitone pickup/preamp system for about $90 more than the straight acoustic versions.

The Martin D Junior comes in acoustic and acoustic-electric versions of solid Sitka Spruce over solid Sapele, and solid Sapele over solid Sapele. All models have a Richlite fingerboard and bridge.

[TokyoNeko]

24" is a bit on the short side, but I guess I can try a D Jr at a GC and find out.

[Bax Burgess]

https://www.elderly.com/collections/...ango-with-case

Expensive, though, it's worthy of the price, but it's nylon.

[TokyoNeko]

Yikes, a 2" nut width??? Way too wide for my left hand.

[Garrison314]

I have the little Martin for a travel guitar to keep the full size guitars from getting beat up and it sounds alright but is not as easy or fun to play.
Can't say I'm too crazy about that guitar neck thing you're showing.
If I had it to do again I'd get a parlor size Seagull.