The Lost Art of. . . Strumming?

[joc6812]

Check out John Doyle, a great player, on early Solas recordings. Some incredible strumming, rhythmic and melodic.

[semolinapilcher]

The guy I thought of was Johnny Marr but wow, that’s such a long time ago now.

Actually even this is 20 years ago too, Caleb Meyer

[justonwo]

Hmmm . . . I can't say that I've ever really categorized guitar this way. Strumming vs not. I still think there are a lot of great rhythm guitar and lead guitar players out there. Perhaps I'm tuned out.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

Rodney Crowell's latest CD.



Best,
Jayne

Originally Posted by semolinapilcher

, Caleb Meyer

There are so many things I love about the Forum. Today thanks to Jaymarsch and Semolinapilcher, I heard two music groups= two songs, that really moved me!
Awesome!
And by the way...I am a big time Strummer! with some fingerstyle thrown in.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by fazool

Same here.

I can figure out a tune by ear but it takes me a long time. I don't have a great ear for pitch. I took music theory in college but I'm not a natural with things like mastering the notes on the fretboard etc. I'm ok but not a great lead player so I know my limitations and weak areas.

But, like you, complex rhythms and strumming just sort of comes naturally to me. That and fingerpicking is what I'm good at. I love combining them.

Two iconic hard rock lead guitar players talked about it and said that the leads aren't the important part and said a good rhythm guitar is the heart of a rock song. Everyone sees the flashy blazing lead but the good rhythm player is the better guitar player (according to those interviews).

I do not at all think that current pop music is lacking in this area. I play a lot of pop guitar-laden songs and it's got great strumming and guitar rhythms in it.

Yes, take Pete Townshend (The Who), for example; a great rhythm player. Apparently he learned his chops from playing the banjo... The syncopated down/up/up, down/up/up strummed acoustic part in the intro to Pinball Wizard is fiendishly difficult, and has distant echoes of George Formby's banjolele playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQx2CaUZDo0

http://www.thewho.org/pete.htm

[mawmow]

Great fundamental topic !
Thanks to all who fueled it !

[Cypress Knee]

Here is John Fogerty solo acoustic playing the CCR classic "Have You Ever Seen the Rain?" When he plays with a band you get the impression that it is just a simple down down-up pattern, but stripped of all instruments but the acoustic guitar you can hear a much more complex strumming rhythm.



CK

[JohnW63]

Just watched this video. last night. A good watch if you want to see how important rhythm guitar can be. He's a good player, for sure.

[Russ C]

I think D Du uD did more damage to rhythm guitar than anything else.

[Wade Hampton]

Cypress Knee (and his brother, Walnut Elbow) wrote:

Originally Posted by Cypress Knee

Here is John Fogerty solo acoustic playing the CCR classic "Have You Ever Seen the Rain?" When he plays with a band you get the impression that it is just a simple down down-up pattern, but stripped of all instruments but the acoustic guitar you can hear a much more complex strumming rhythm.



CK

That’s basically the way that I play guitar. The syncopation is accomplished by a combination of strumming, dropping your palm down for quick palm mutes and occasional strategic upstrokes for rhythmic accents. A lot of it is knowing when NOT to play, and after a while it gets to be instinctual.

I played bars and casuals for many years, sometimes in bands and duos but solo more often than not, largely because I made more money that way. Yes, it was more work, but there was none of the band infighting and ego BS to worry about. Since I play melody on other instruments that I bring along, I’ve always focused on trying to be a solid rhythm accompaniment guitarist.

Over the years I’ve worked with a lot of other guitarists in the church music group that I lead, and the two issues that many of them have had the greatest amount of difficulty comprehending have been:

1.) Learning how to think in parts, and learning how to edit their playing so it fits with what other musicians are playing without doubling those other people’s parts;

and

2.) Grasping the idea that the bass strings and the rest of the strings can be operated independently from each other, by playing the I and V notes on the low strings and brush chords on the rest of them.


Particularly with middle-aged men, a lot of them just want to play all six strings ALL the time, and think that that’s how acoustic guitars are supposed to be played.

Even though with many rhythmic patterns the music quickly turns to mud when that’s done, partly because of some people having imprecise senses of time but mostly because it’s really quite difficult to play with any kind of rhythmic precision when you have to travel back and forth across all those strings - there are physical distances involved. You have to cover quite a bit of real estate, you might say.

Whereas when you’re playing one to three strings at a time most of the time, you cover less physical distance and as a result it’s physically easier to play with rhythmic precision and to be able to vary your playing with accents, bass runs and syncopation.

At first you have to be analytical enough to think through that sort of approach, but the more you do it the more it becomes instinctive.

So the only time I ever play all six strings of the guitar at once is when I want to achieve a big, stagey, grandiose kind of flourish and I want all those notes ringing out at the same time. Which I do on some songs at the appropriate moments, but never all the way through and not on most of the music I play.

It’s easier to keep control of all the rhythmic elements happening when your hand movements are in as small and contained a space as possible. Yes, it’s fun to do a big windmill strum now and then, and it’s an effective piece of stagecraft, particularly when you leap into the air and do a big scissors kick at the same time. Which sometimes I like to do (though not in church!) But it’s easier to keep the beat when you keep your strumming hand motion well-contained, and play only a few strings at a time.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[lowrider]

Thank you Wade, that was a great and very helpful post!

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Yes, take Pete Townshend (The Who), for example; a great rhythm player. Apparently he learned his chops from playing the banjo... The syncopated down/up/up, down/up/up strummed acoustic part in the intro to Pinball Wizard is fiendishly difficult, and has distant echoes of George Formby's banjolele playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQx2CaUZDo0

http://www.thewho.org/pete.htm

Pete is certainly of High Royalty when it comes to strumming. Love everything he does. Especially how he combines his single notes and with in an instant switches to heavy strumming. In my book he is most definitely a great pioneer.

[rwmct]

I can get where the OP is coming from. On so many classic tunes, the strumming really makes the song.

I have been learning Aqualung with my instructor. There are a couple of strum patterns in that tune that are really important to the feel and sound. And if somebody just started to strum one of them, I would be that most of the forum would be thinking "that's "Aqualung!" in half a minute.

[whvick]

Originally Posted by capefisherman

FWIW, as someone who's taught guitar for going on 50 years I can say without hesitation that teaching complex strumming and complex rhythms is MUCH more difficult than teaching finger-style, believe it of not. I've found there are many components to this - being willing to focus and count beats (in the beginning) while learning basic strum patterns before tackling the fancier stuff is a big hurdle for a lot of people. In much of modern acoustic music, with the emphasis on straight 4/4, there is no compelling reason for many beginner and intermediate players to go beyond that if they want to sound like the music they enjoy.

The biggest single element to complex strumming is understanding that most of accents and interesting elements come from the fretting hand (damping, chord changes at unexpected times, etc.), not the strumming hand, although there are exceptions to that of course. I always urge my students to watch a player's strumming hand closely; what they will notice is pretty constant down/up motion regardless of where changes occur. This validates the idea of the fretting hand and when the changes come being the bigger influence on complex strumming, or more accurately, complex rhythmic variations.

So would this make it easier for a lefty to play righty?

[JohnW63]

So would this make it easier for a lefty to play righty?

I am one and to be honest, it's the fast complex strumming that has been the hardest. Finger picking I can do. It's small motor skills. The killer Pete Townsend strumming or even Nancy Wilson doing "Crazy on You" strumming seems a little beyond my large motor skills.