Unrealistic asking prices for guitars lately?

[J Patrick]

....now that I have been buying and selling guitars online for 20 plus years I feel like I have some perspective on the market....a few thoughts...there is now and always has been a huge disparity in asking price for similar guitars....from way below original sale price to actually above original sale price....

.....there are a variety of factors that determine what actually sells on the used market...mostly desirability and asking price....but also micro swings in the general economy and seasonal trends...used sales always seem to languish around the holiday season...

....what is actually kind of new is the amazing array of truly high end instruments that can be had for what is often approaching half the original sale price...I reckon that’s because that last couple of decades have seen so many independent luthiers rise to prominence that there is now a sizable inventory of of used high end guitars on the market....as always supply and demand are determining the sales record...

....as far as buying a used guitar at a reasonable or even great price goes....it’s a really good time for buyers...for sellers not so much...so anybody trying to get top dollar has to wait for someone who wants your specific guitar and wants it right now...that shrinks your potential buyers list significantly.....

....for sellers there is one constant...price it low enough and it will sell..

....for buyers...wait long enough and you will find what you want at price you are good with...

[MCDEMO1]

In guess you can use Reverb to establish what guitars are selling for over time, but trying to use AGF or the UMGF as a means to ballpark prices is useless since most sellers replace their asking price with SOLD once a deal is made.

The only thing you can do most times is read through a listing on a forum and see if sellers have left any price drops in place until reaching the point where they do not post any more.

The 50-60% of new retail is a reasonable starting point for most instruments, but not all IMO.

Initial asking prices for used limited model newer factory built guitars or luthier built instruments with a good reputation in great shape are going to be higher than standard "commodity" type guitars. For example, I am the second owner of a Martin D1 Authentic 1931 that I purchased for $3500 (half of Martin list) in mint condition from a repair shop luthier after he had owned it for a year. It has a well deserved reputation as a great sounding guitar and is no longer being made. I think it is still worth what I paid for it and would start out pricing it higher if I ever put it on Reverb to get what I paid back. It is a large 12-fret dread with a wide neck, which limits the appeal, but certain folks recognize it as a great instrument and I would be willing to wait for one of those players looking for this particular model. Right now it is not for sale and will likely stay with me until the end.

Part of the selling/pricing problem is that there are too many older people, like myself, who are reaching the point where they are not playing as much any more and want to unload some of their guitars. Not too long ago they sold or traded with others in the same boat, but now everyone wants to sell and not take too much of a loss. Most younger players are not in the position to buy at some of the inflated prices for name instruments, especially where they can get an excellent new model by companies like Eastman at a very reasonable price.

[fazool]

I almost never buy from Reverb because for some weird reasons, Reverb sellers just set a much higher selling price than on eBay or CL.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by Mr. Paul

New 00-17 Authentic can be had for $3600 delivered. Been on the lookout for a used one and the 3 I've seen have all been priced higher than that.

I think a lot of people pay minimum advertised price and don't realize how inexpensively (relatively speaking) you can usually get a new Martin for. The 00-17 Authentic may be a dream / forever guitar for me, but for now I have an 000-15SM that I love enough to not really think about anything beyond it - maybe in addition to it, but not "better than".

The MAP on that guitar is $1599. The prices I was quoted by a couple of forum sponsors and the price it was marked on the floor at a local Martin dealer in Philly were all $1270-$1275, which I happily bought it for. But I see these advertised used (not often - it doesn't seem like something folks are anxious to get rid of), for $1350-$1450. I'd never pay that, but if you had no idea you could get a new one for less, you might. And if you had no idea new ones sold for less, you'd probably advertise it in that range.

So I'm never surprised when I see this stuff. But it seems likely to leave some disappointed seller. People complain about low-ball buyers. But if you make a good faith offer for the most you're willing to pay, the worst that can happen is the seller will decline. I don't know why sellers find low offers insulting - they don't have to accept them. But if they want to sell, they MIGHT have to sell for that. It's all just part of figuring out where the market really is for a guitar.

-Ray

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by Steve-arino

I respectfully disagree. A lowballer submits a price that does not reflect the reasonable worth of a given offering (guitars in this case). In the infrequent event that the lowballer "wins" the guitar, it's either from a seller that is completely naive (granny) or the lowballer can expect to be dissatisfied with what they actually receive.

"Reasonable worth" is purely a market reality though. What the buyer and seller perceive as reasonable worth will often be different. The buyer is "wrong" if there's another buyer willing to pay more. If there isn't, the buyer's offer is, by definition, the "reasonable worth". Doesn't mean the seller has to sell it for that. But he or she might have to hold onto it if they're not willing to.

I've never privately bought or offered on a used acoustic guitar (although I've sold a couple here), but I'd done my share of buying and selling bicycle gear, camera gear, electric guitars, etc. I'm never insulted by an offer, but there are several I've passed on because either I'm not in a hurry to sell and I can afford to wait a good chunk of time to see where the market really is, OR because I'm not all that motivated and, beyond a certain floor, I'd rather just keep it. But I've accepted some fairly low offers when the circumstances called for it. And I've made some pretty low offers too - sometimes they were accepted, sometimes not.

-Ray

[aknow]

I've sold about 12 guitars, 10 pedals, and a new bass on Reverb in the last 2 months. Prices are far lower than I expected. I can only assume there is far too much product available for sale. In most cases you have to list well below wholesale to get any attention, especially for acoustic guitars.

[Tony Burns]

i havent really noticed this as much - basically becasue i have all the guitars id possibly want -
havent bought anything since like 2012 , which i guess means
im happy with what i have - if anything Ive noticed alot of luthier guitars going for great prices
-wondering why anybody would ever buy a new guitar with all the great hand builts out their
- thou you have to be careful with all the scams out their .




.

Where does research of the actual market for your item play into this then? i.e., the seller actually taking the time to review pricing guides like VGM and BB, sold items on reverb and ebay, retail websites, classifieds, etc. and basing their price on these objective values. I will admit though that I'm in the minority when I do this. A lot seem to just pick a number out of the air...

[RP]

Originally Posted by J-Doug

Where does research of the actual market for your item play into this then? i.e., the seller actually taking the time to review pricing guides like VGM and BB, sold items on reverb and ebay, retail websites, classifieds, etc. and basing their price on these objective values. I will admit though that I'm in the minority when I do this. A lot seem to just pick a number out of the air...

Basing a selling price on what the seller originally paid, albeit unrealistic in most cases, is not akin to picking a number out of the air. I think what happens in many cases is an individual purchases a new guitar without the usual discounts that we commonly enjoy, and then uses that as a second hand selling price. If one is accustomed to getting discounts from dealers, then a non-discounted second hand price will undoubtedly sound high...

Originally Posted by RP

Basing a selling price on what the seller originally paid, albeit unrealistic in most cases, is not akin to picking a number out of the air. I think what happens in many cases is an individual purchases a new guitar without the usual discounts that we commonly enjoy, and then uses that as a second hand selling price. If one is accustomed to getting discounts from dealers, then a non-discounted second hand price will undoubtedly sound high...

I'm commenting more on the dreamers who price their used guitars nearly at new, full retail, non-discounted prices (as can be seen on the AGF and elsewhere). But hey, it's not my sale so whatever...