People Loving Casein Picks? Here's Why. (see embedded video). Share Your Experience.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Members: UPDATE: PLEASE SEE THE END OF THIS POST FOR EXCELLENT CASEIN PICKS CHOICES BELOW $10.00 FROM FENDER, CLAYTON AND JOHN PEARSE.

Howdy, Everyone.

A lot of people rave about their favorite pick materials, and justifiably so. My pick journey (the beginnings of my pick nerdology) began more than forty years ago, when I bought the last fewer genuine TS picks from McCabes, right after CITES kicked in.

I think it's fair to say that I've played more pick materials than just about everyone I know. This is because I have been a fanatical tone chaser my entire. I don't even own an electric guitar. I'm all about wood, and wooden tone reproduction.

I came to casein as a fluke about five years ago. It is always the first thing I reach for -- always -- and if you know about CLP I have a lot to choose from.

Some of you know this clip. I hate pickups too. Why? Cuz they suck. Here's a very simple vid that some members know of. It is played with a thin casein teardrop directly into an SM-58 on a fantastic Eastman slope dread E-10SS.



There are a lot of great entry-level casein picks on the market, the best of the bunch being the John Pearse Fast Turtles at $10 or less each.



Here's a direct link to Strings & Beyond, who does a great job with these picks (no affiliation with either company): https://www.stringsandbeyond.com/jopefatutogu.html

There are a couple of even less-expensive choices from both Clayton and Fender:

The Fender Tru-Shells:



And finally, the Clayton NuTone Line:



For those who've spent a lifetime chasing tone, this material has been a revelation and really inspired me.

Some great vendors for picks made from casein would be my good buddy Eric, who started his business right here on AGF, as well as Red Bear, Hense, and a few others. Casein was discovered in Germany, and Europe remains ground zero for casein guitar picks.

On a sad side note, worldwide casein production will almost certainly cease in the next ten to twenty years. Almost everyone company making this stuff has closed their doors.

I hope some members find this information useful, and I hope other casein players on here will come in and share their experience, good, bad or indifferent.

Scott Memmer

[Dotneck]

I like the Fast Turtles too and have a small handful of them in different thicknesses. I recently bought one of yours too. And I have a few Tortoise. I have a nice selection of picks depending on which guitar I'm playing and the tone I'm after...

[HeyMikey]

My favorite pick is my Charmed Life casein. It’s amazing how much more responsiveness and quality sound it delivers. Any one chasing tone through other means should give one of these a try.

[PiousDevil]

Why is casein production ceasing? I love a thick (4mm) fast turtle for dark rhythm tones. If they won’t need to be available any longer I may want to stock up.

[LadysSolo]

In general, I prefer Blue Chip (whatever the stuff is called that they are made from,) but I have a Charmed Life casein that I like very much for my Collings mandolin for the times I want to ease up its "brightness" a little. Usually I love its sound but occasionally I want to play something a bit more subdued on it. Why will casein production cease? Because it's a pain to work with?

[Charmed Life Picks]

Several have asked why casein production will cease, or has almost already ceased. To the best of my knowledge there are only two companies in the world actively producing this material.

A number of reasons:

1) It is not profitable.

2) Main reason: You cannot shape or injection-mold casein. It MUST be formed into either sheets or rod and then machined from that. And the thinnest you can produce a sheet in industrial manufacturer is around three (3.) mm; otherwise it warps and cracks. This makes it hugely uncompetitive with, for example, celluloid, or for that matter virtually every other popular plastic on the planet. And the machining costs only add to the problem if, for instance, someone wants to make buttons out of it (one of its main uses about 100 years ago). And it is also very expensive to make.

3) Compared to other plastics, it has several additional drawbacks. It is slightly brittle when cut too thin. It hates water and warps after less than one hour exposure. It hates heat and warps if you sand it too aggressively. It is hard to find, as there are no existing companies in North America making it. They've all gone out of business.

4) Finally, it is close to impossible to polish and shows even the tiniest micro-scratches. And I do mean impossible. I've been at it over three years and am STILL struggling with this, and most of you know how driven and stubborn I am. I've spent easily $10,000 on my polishing experiments, maybe $15,000. I'm too afraid to go back and add it up. And that doesn't even include the thousands of hours -- that is not an exaggeration -- of sweat equity and labor.

Do I sound negative? Actually, I'm not. I love the stuff.

On the plus side, it's the closest I've ever played, or probably ever WILL play, to genuine tortoise, plus it's legal. It is stunningly gorgeous when done right and still, to this day, is considered the most beautiful plastic in the history of mankind. After more than 100 years it's still known as "the Queen" of all plastics and is also, as far as I know, the first bio-plastic in history. (Interesting that this is coming back around now, as an alternative to petroleum-plastics: there are now bio-plastics made from corn, soy, and a host of other natural materials. My guess is anything with carbon in it is a potential plastic.)

And this is really cool, because in addition to being a pick nerd I'm a history nerd. This really fascinates me. For centuries, the active molecule in casein has been used as a binder in paint. It's the same essential molecular, just doesn't harden. Check it out. In 2015 they discovered a cave with casein residue from 49,000 years ago. You read that right. Forty-nine thousand years. And it has also been found in the great pyramids of Egypt.

I must tell you, it's a great honor to be associated with this material. I feel humbled that I'm doing what I can with it to keep it alive.

Okay, now here's the good news, ladies and gents: There is a TON of this stuff out there. Were the remaining manufacturers to go out of business tomorrow, there's enough inventory out there for probably another 20 years. But even then it's not likely the end. Someone will come along (maybe us, maybe someone else) and make it in small batches. It's just too cool to let go. But it really is no longer a viable commercial product for someone trying to make it on a large, industrial basis. It cannot compete with any of the newer plastics.

I don't want to overpost in this thread, so here's another vid played with a casein pick, in this case on a wonderful (and cheap!) Epiphone Masterbilt AJ-500M. This time it is "blended" amplification, with the p/u going into the board and monitors, and the SM-58 picking up the vibrations out front. Enjoy!



Okay, that's the history lesson. Test on Friday.

Memmer

[PatrickMadsen]

I'm one of those "pick Chasers". Been playing for over 60 years and still a chasin' the sound at times.

How does the the CLP Casein picks sound compared to a Bill Stokes Showcase pick? I find the Showcase picks don't sound as bright as the .73 Dunlop Nylon. They sound great alone but when playing with a group, I think sounds more subdued.

Perhaps it's a cleaner sound and I'm too used to the brightness of the nylon.

I am using a .73 Dunlop nylon pick. What CLP pick would be one to try out? Kind of burned out paying big bucks for a pick only to go back to the nylon.

[markob]

I have a few Charmed Life Casein picks. Very nice. My favorite pick is the Golden Gate MP-12 Mando pick. For both guitar and mando. Nitro cellulose fatties.

[dougt]

I am a recent convert to Casein and must say I really like the sound of this material. After experimenting with a buffalo horn I ordered a Charmed Life and it is my favorite Pick I have ever tried. I plan to try Blue Chip sometime and order a couple of different thickness Charmed Life picks but right now I am busy getting to know this wonderful pick!

Also I don't think it would be possible to get better customer service than Scott so freely gave. Thanks for doing things the right way Scott.

[PatrickMadsen]

Which one did you buy Doug?

[dougt]

Originally Posted by PatrickMadsen

Which one did you buy Doug?

NF-1.15, I really like the feel and the sound of this pick. I plan to order one of the browns and another one of the NF in a thinner gauge soon.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by dougt

I am a recent convert to Casein and must say I really like the sound of this material. After experimenting with a buffalo horn I ordered a Charmed Life and it is my favorite Pick I have ever tried. I plan to try Blue Chip sometime and order a couple of different thickness Charmed Life picks but right now I am busy getting to know this wonderful pick!

Also I don't think it would be possible to get better customer service than Scott so freely gave. Thanks for doing things the right way Scott.

Doug, as a devout pick nerd for more than forty years, I've always enjoyed switching off to different materials, different songs, etc. YMMV, but for me casein is the closest I've found to the genuine TS I still own and play. And it's legal too.

REQUEST: For those of you who have purchased the inexpensive casein picks I mentioned in my OP, I'd love you to share your experiences, good, bad, or indifferent, with other members here. These are really good products, for not a lot of money.

Thanks Again,
sm

[DownUpDave]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Doug, as a devout pick nerd for more than forty years, I've always enjoyed switching off to different materials, different songs, etc. YMMV, but for me casein is the closest I've found to the genuine TS I still own and play. And it's legal too.

Thanks Again,
sm

I really want to thank you for this thread and mentioning inexpensive Casein picks. I went ahead and ordered 2 each of the Nutone medium and heavy and a JP Fast Turtle in 1.0mm. The various pick thread have been a revelation for me. I went from using thin nylon to loving .88mm and 1.0mm Ultex and Primetone.

In the future I will definitely being purchasing your picks if I get along with these new Casien ones. Thanks again.....PS love the video, great performance and sound

[jjrpilot]

Originally Posted by PatrickMadsen

I am using a .73 Dunlop nylon pick. What CLP pick would be one to try out? Kind of burned out paying big bucks for a pick only to go back to the nylon.

Good question. I'm not sure I would recommend casein for you.....JUST yet. If you're using Dunlops nylon...and especially a .73 you'll definitely be used to having "flex" in your pick. I actually used .60 Dunlop nylons for my entire life up until a half a year ago.

Casein does not flex...at all. It takes time to get used to stiff picks.

None of CLP's picks have the flex like we're used to in those thin nylon Dunlops...however, both Scott's Brown and Black picks can come in the thickness you're used to give or take a few fractions of a mm.

If you want a brighter sounding pick from Scott, I'd highly recommend his "Black" material and in the thin thickness he offers. Neither the Brown or Black will flex like you're used to but my goodness the tone you get from them is amazing.

I own both the Black and Brown. Brown = darker mellower tone. Black = a little brighter than Brown and has the properties to really punch through.

Hope this helps!

PS: Sorry Scott didn't mean to hijack your Casein thread.

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by jjrpilot

Good question. I'm not sure I would recommend casein for you.....JUST yet. If you're using Dunlops nylon...and especially a .73 you'll definitely be used to having "flex" in your pick. I actually used .60 Dunlop nylons for my entire life up until a half a year ago.

Casein does not flex...at all. It takes time to get used to stiff picks.

None of CLP's picks have the flex like we're used to in those thin nylon Dunlops...however, both Scott's Brown and Black picks can come in the thickness you're used to give or take a few fractions of a mm.

If you want a brighter sounding pick from Scott, I'd highly recommend his "Black" material and in the thin thickness he offers. Neither the Brown or Black will flex like you're used to but my goodness the tone you get from them is amazing.

I own both the Black and Brown. Brown = darker mellower tone. Black = a little brighter than Brown and has the properties to really punch through.

Hope this helps!

PS: Sorry Scott didn't mean to hijack your Casein thread.

I was worried about the flex issue coming from nylon so I went with a CLF .75 and it was a good go-between because it has some give. Ultimately my main pick now is a BC TD35 beveled edge for picking and that CLF.75 as a strummer.