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  #46  
Old 04-04-2019, 11:44 PM
hifivic hifivic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
The advantage might be durability, not a tonal effect.
I have played 54 years and never once had a "durability" issue concerning a bridge pin.
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  #47  
Old 04-05-2019, 03:43 AM
ancient tones ancient tones is offline
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To me bridge pin discussion is similar to the discussion of cables in the audio world. Do the electrons know that they are moving through gold or silver versus copper? What about the parts of the signal path that aren't made of the special material. Of course if you cryogenically treat the special material, then the cables "sound" even better.

There is a whole forum devoted to the discussion of audio cables. What's interesting to me is the moderators don't allow the discussion of double blind testing on the cable forum. "In the interest of harmony"
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  #48  
Old 04-05-2019, 05:06 AM
cdkrugjr cdkrugjr is offline
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Originally Posted by ancient tones View Post
To me bridge pin discussion is similar to the discussion of cables in the audio world. Do the electrons know that they are moving through gold or silver versus copper? What about the parts of the signal path that aren't made of the special material. Of course if you cryogenically treat the special material, then the cables "sound" even better.

There is a whole forum devoted to the discussion of audio cables. What's interesting to me is the moderators don't allow the discussion of double blind testing on the cable forum. "In the interest of harmony"
I've worked in the world of RF testing, where we care an Awful lot about our cables up to the GHz range.

We weren't buying Monster cable.

20kHz? You say funny things, Monster marketing dept...
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  #49  
Old 04-05-2019, 06:00 AM
alnico5 alnico5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient tones View Post
To me bridge pin discussion is similar to the discussion of cables in the audio world. Do the electrons know that they are moving through gold or silver versus copper? What about the parts of the signal path that aren't made of the special material. Of course if you cryogenically treat the special material, then the cables "sound" even better.

There is a whole forum devoted to the discussion of audio cables. What's interesting to me is the moderators don't allow the discussion of double blind testing on the cable forum. "In the interest of harmony"
Change "harmony" to "not discovering the truth."
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  #50  
Old 04-05-2019, 08:07 PM
jimmy bookout jimmy bookout is offline
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I have never been able to tell a difference between various materials, assuming all are properly "fitted" bridge pins.
The only reason I change pins is for the aesthetic.

As example, my Gardiner Parlor with plain ebony pins:




And with Bob Colosi dyed bone pins with 4mm tortoise dot inlays (as the guitar is now):
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  #51  
Old 04-05-2019, 09:42 PM
frankmcr frankmcr is offline
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Do those bridge pins improve the guitar's intonation?
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  #52  
Old 04-05-2019, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient tones View Post
To me bridge pin discussion is similar to the discussion of cables in the audio world.
I would have to disagree with you strongly. With audio cables if there are changes in sound it usually can only be measured with specialized equipment and most if any sonic changes are not perceived by the listener. With bridge pins, the nature of the changes can be heard easily (assuming the ears of the human listening are capable of hearing the changes) but difficult if not impossible to measure mechanically. The application (which pins to change and to what) of bridge pin changes are not fully understood by most and consequently the perception of change may be limited or non existent. If approached properly the change of bridge pins strategically and selectively can be dramatic, unlike audio cables.
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  #53  
Old 04-05-2019, 11:39 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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And off we go yet again!


whm
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  #54  
Old 04-06-2019, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by michaelnel View Post
More marketing fluff from Martin, who is faced with the reality that there are lots of small builders building better Martins than Martin ever has or will.
Iíve owned Merrillís and Collings and Goodalls, etc. They were nice. Those are gone and a couple Martins are still here. Better means a lot of different things.
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  #55  
Old 04-06-2019, 01:14 AM
Russ C Russ C is offline
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I'd say the only movement past the saddle that a string and/or a pin has is what the soundboard makes it do. If anything's moving on its own back there the guitar was strung up wrong.
Nano moments - elasticity in a short bit of string, a small piece of bridge, a pin and a small piece of bridge plate mixed in with the noise from a whole string and a whole guitar I just cannot credit are audible to any human.

The mass of 6 pins affecting the movement of a whole bridge? Yes, and I can believe that's detectable.
The effect of restringing to try out a new pin - sure. The brain in the time it takes to do that - yep. Expectation - yep. All of the above plus any other variables I haven't thought of - absolutely.
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  #56  
Old 04-06-2019, 04:09 AM
ancient tones ancient tones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post
I would have to disagree with you strongly. With audio cables if there are changes in sound it usually can only be measured with specialized equipment and most if any sonic changes are not perceived by the listener. With bridge pins, the nature of the changes can be heard easily (assuming the ears of the human listening are capable of hearing the changes) but difficult if not impossible to measure mechanically. The application (which pins to change and to what) of bridge pin changes are not fully understood by most and consequently the perception of change may be limited or non existent. If approached properly the change of bridge pins strategically and selectively can be dramatic, unlike audio cables.
I wonder if in a double blind test I could hear the difference in bridge pins? I wonder if others could hear the difference?

Some say they can hear the differences in cables.
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  #57  
Old 04-06-2019, 04:15 AM
ancient tones ancient tones is offline
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Originally Posted by alnico5 View Post
Change "harmony" to "not discovering the truth."
Right, but then there is no discussion. Science is reality.

I would love to have a DBX, to see if all the golden ear ones can hear the difference in bridge pin materials.

It's ok to tweak your bridge pins, it's part of the fun for many guitar players. What would us hobbyist do without modifications to our gear?
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  #58  
Old 04-06-2019, 11:20 AM
jpd jpd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient tones View Post
Right, but then there is no discussion. Science is reality.
It's ok to tweak your bridge pins, it's part of the fun for many guitar players. What would us hobbyist do without modifications to our gear?
Go out to a few more dinners
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  #59  
Old 04-06-2019, 11:36 AM
L20A L20A is offline
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I replaced bone pins with brass pins in my Alvarez Baritone to help clean up the muddiness of a strummed chord.
The pins did help. They took some of the bottom end out of the guitar.

On the other side of the issue, my wife plays a pin-less bridge Taylor.
That guitar doesn't miss having pins.
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  #60  
Old 04-06-2019, 12:04 PM
ancient tones ancient tones is offline
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Go out to a few more dinners
Play more! :-))
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