The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-10-2019, 01:40 PM
RGWelch's Avatar
RGWelch RGWelch is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 274
Default Mic for recording video question

I have a couple of condenser mics, an Audio-Technica AT875R, a Sennheiser e945 and Shure sm58. I've also got an Art ProMix 3 channel mixer. It doesn't have any tone controls, but does have phantom power and low pass filter. I'll be recording my playing accoustic guitar, fingerpicking mainly. I could do some singing at some point, but I'm primarily interested in getting the best tone from my guitars. The video camera has XLR imputs, which the mixer has a balanced output.

I'm first interested in seeing if there is an upgrade on the mics, if there is maybe a large diaphram mic I could get that would work well with recording the guitar. I'm not looking to break the bank, just hoping for a better option than what I have for this purpose in mics, maybe in the $300 range? There is a mic sale at Sweetwater, so I was thinking maybe there was a good deal going on right now that I could take advantage of?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-10-2019, 02:25 PM
RGWelch's Avatar
RGWelch RGWelch is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 274
Default

I'm looking at an Audio-Technica AT2035 Cardioid Condenser that is nicely priced at $150. Up from there is the AT4040 at $300. There is also the Sennheiser MD 421 II, which is a little more, but I know those are industry standard.

How much of an improvement ate the higher priced mics over the AT2035? Would I be happy with that mic for just general recording purposes? Or is the AT4040 vastly better and more than worth the extra $? It seems to have less distortion and better transient response. That might make a difference for intimate acoustic guitar recording?

There is also the AKG P420 Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone, it's a little more then the AT2035 and has 79db s/n ratio, vs 82db on the AT2035. Then there is the AKG C214 Large-diaphragm Condenser Microphone, which looks similar to the AT4040? Maybe better, or about the same?

Any comments are welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-11-2019, 05:14 PM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 38,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGWelch View Post
…I'm first interested in seeing if there is an upgrade on the mics, if there is maybe a large diaphram mic I could get that would work well with recording the guitar.
Hi RGW

The 2035 a fine mic for casual recording. If it's truly large diaphragm (which used to mean a full 1" capsule) then it will give you a better low end and it would be better for singing as well.

The ¾" (20mm) diaphragm mics are great for guitar, but often lack warmth when recording vocals.

In the $150 range, the 2035 is a reliable choice. Actually there are many choices in that price range, and given your other gear it would match up well.

The C-214 is a downsized C-414 and it comes with a 20db cut switch and low-frequency cut as well. I'm not sure it's worth the extra $200 over the 2035 (I own an AKG-414).

I've never used a Sennheiser in that price range which would do any better. Sennheiser WERE the industry standard years ago, but they are carving their notch in the mid-to-upper end of prosumer video shotgun mics. For music I still prefer AKG, AT, Neumann or Rode (who also dabbles heavily in the video industry).

If I could only use a single mic, it would be a large diaphragm mic from a reliable company because of more options when fitting it different situations.

Hope this adds to the discussion. Everyone wants maximum quality with low cost, so there are trade offs. I'm pretty sure in the $150 category your choice would be a good one. Hope you have a great time exploring new options.



__________________
Larry J

Baby #01
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Full-size Full-Scale Baby #4

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued till a discussion turns silent doesn't mean you have convinced anyone…

Last edited by ljguitar; 05-11-2019 at 05:20 PM. Reason: ADDED A THOUGHT
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-12-2019, 08:57 AM
RGWelch's Avatar
RGWelch RGWelch is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 274
Default

Thanks for the reply, LJGuitar

I've found some other threads to read through here and finding lot's of info. One question is how much difference between the AT2020 & AT2035, seems like the 2035 has less noise.

But another very interesting mic came up, and odd name but curious features. It's the Golden Age Project FC3 Large-diaphragm Condenser Microphone, anyone use these? I am interested by the different patterns available at the change of a switch. Cardiod, Omni and figure 8. There are some micing techniques I've seen on some Youtube videos with a figure-8 and a cardiod mix that looks intriguing. Not sure how good this mic is otherwise, though, doesn't seem to be a typical one being used as I'm not finding a lot of info on it.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...m_term=160x600
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:07 AM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 38,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGWelch View Post
Thanks for the reply, LJGuitar

I've found some other threads to read through here and finding lot's of info. One question is how much difference between the AT2020 & AT2035, seems like the 2035 has less noise.

But another very interesting mic came up, and odd name but curious features. It's the Golden Age Project FC3 Large-diaphragm Condenser Microphone, anyone use these? I am interested by the different patterns available at the change of a switch. Cardiod, Omni and figure 8. There are some micing techniques I've seen on some Youtube videos with a figure-8 and a cardiod mix that looks intriguing. Not sure how good this mic is otherwise, though, doesn't seem to be a typical one being used as I'm not finding a lot of info on it.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...m_term=160x600
Hi RG

Sure I suspect the 2035 has less self noise, and depending on the project and the rest of the gear you use, it might make a difference.

I still like the Behringer B2-Pro for an all-purpose, low cost, large diaphragm multi pattern mic. A client brought one to my studio once and asked for an opinion. After using it to record some 'stuff' and comparing it to my AKG 414, it was a decent little mic, and perfectly suited for a home studio.

It's not an AKG 414, or high end mic, but it it a decent, and low cost alternative for people who are experimenting and learning home recording.

I started with less expensive gear and grew into a studio (much more expensive mics and preamps). I still have a fond spot in my heart for the less expensive mics and preamps, which I passed on recently to a person who conducts blues workshops in a women's prison.

Here is a YouTube comparison of the AT-2020 vs Behringer B2 Pro.



It seems fair as far as it goes. Best to listen on a better system or good phones. It's obvious the full 1" dual diaphragm (25.5mm versus the 16mm of AT-2020) will produce a much more solid low end. What the test doesn't include is all the switchable patterns. They are a bonus for sure. And the kit version for $150 includes a carrying case, a mic suspension mount, foam windscreen, and sometimes ear-buds.




__________________
Larry J

Baby #01
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Full-size Full-Scale Baby #4

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued till a discussion turns silent doesn't mean you have convinced anyone…

Last edited by ljguitar; 05-13-2019 at 08:17 AM. Reason: added youtube link
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:52 AM
RGWelch's Avatar
RGWelch RGWelch is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 274
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi RG

Sure I suspect the 2035 has less self noise, and depending on the project and the rest of the gear you use, it might make a difference.

I still like the Behringer B2-Pro for an all-purpose, low cost, large diaphragm multi pattern mic. A client brought one to my studio once and asked for an opinion. After using it to record some 'stuff' and comparing it to my AKG 414, it was a decent little mic, and perfectly suited for a home studio.

It's not an AKG 414, or high end mic, but it it a decent, and low cost alternative for people who are experimenting and learning home recording.

I started with less expensive gear and grew into a studio (much more expensive mics and preamps). I still have a fond spot in my heart for the less expensive mics and preamps, which I passed on recently to a person who conducts blues workshops in a women's prison.

Here is a YouTube comparison of the AT-2020 vs Behringer B2 Pro.



It seems fair as far as it goes. Best to listen on a better system or good phones. It's obvious the full 1" dual diaphragm (25.5mm versus the 16mm of AT-2020) will produce a much more solid low end. What the test doesn't include is all the switchable patterns. They are a bonus for sure. And the kit version for $150 includes a carrying case, a mic suspension mount, foam windscreen, and sometimes ear-buds.




Thanks for the heads up on the Behringer B2-Pro, it looks to me like it's an FC3 relabeled at a little better price. I do like the option of different patterns as an option. I'm still considering mics, but this looks like a good consideration.

In the meantime, I recently got a Zoom R8 to play with. It was $200 in New condition, seemed like something worth picking up to play with. It will give me a chance to work with whatever mics I have and learn how to use them. Next up, a good pair of monitor headphones!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-14-2019, 10:50 AM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 38,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGWelch View Post
Thanks for the heads up on the Behringer B2-Pro, it looks to me like it's an FC3 relabeled at a little better price.
Hi RG

Maybe - the Behringer has been around for at least 15 years now.

Sounds like you are having fun growing, stretching, learning!!! Have a great time making and capturing music…



__________________
Larry J

Baby #01
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Full-size Full-Scale Baby #4

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued till a discussion turns silent doesn't mean you have convinced anyone…
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-14-2019, 10:36 PM
RGWelch's Avatar
RGWelch RGWelch is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 274
Default

I pulled the trigger on an MXL770 and a some Sony MDR7506 headphones. I figure these should pair up well with the Zoom R8, and that should get me started recording.

I know the MXL770 isn't going to be as good as a high end mic, but from what I can tell it should be really good for $65, and at that price I can work with it until I know better what I'll want to replace it with. From all the reviews I could find, there isn't anything close to the price range of this mic that's clearly better, and some that might not be as good. I'd probably have to pay considerably more to get substantially better. So this seems like the safest starting point. The B-2 Pro was intriguing, but at that price I'd need to hold off on some good headphones, stick with my cheap ones for now, and the only really advantage I could be sure of was the optional pickup patterns, which I'd like to try a particular recording technique I saw using a figure-8 and a cardoid mic together, but that will have to wait. Perhaps I'll get the B-2 later when I'm ready for a second mic, or maybe I'll want a pair of matched mics for stereo work, we'll see. I'll be able to experiment a little with this first, and expand later as I have more experience.

Meanwhile, while I wait on my new gear to arrive, here is a recent video I did using my Zoom H1 with a Rode SVM stereo mic for the guitar recording. Mixed into the audio are some of the natural sounds of the dogs and birds.

https://www.facebook.com/welchwestie...7310636864906/
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-16-2019, 04:02 PM
RGWelch's Avatar
RGWelch RGWelch is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 274
Default

Pulled the trigger on a used AKG P420 on Reverb, so now I'll have two condensers to work with, along with the dynamic mics. The AKG was $109, so I figured if I like it or the MXL better, I can sell one. I got the R8, so just got a chance to look it over. Should be fun to work with for some solo projects.

It's really amazing the quality of gear we can get these days. For less than $500, I've been able to put together a full recording setup that I should be able to produce very high quality recordings with. Seems like my biggest limitation will be having a location to record in that offers good acoustics and limited ambient noise. That really is the biggest challenge, seems to me, not the equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-17-2019, 06:45 AM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 25,229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGWelch View Post
Pulled the trigger on a used AKG P420 on Reverb, so now I'll have two condensers to work with, along with the dynamic mics. The AKG was $109, so I figured if I like it or the MXL better, I can sell one. I got the R8, so just got a chance to look it over. Should be fun to work with for some solo projects.

It's really amazing the quality of gear we can get these days. For less than $500, I've been able to put together a full recording setup that I should be able to produce very high quality recordings with. Seems like my biggest limitation will be having a location to record in that offers good acoustics and limited ambient noise. That really is the biggest challenge, seems to me, not the equipment.
I'm just a hobbyist, but I found that the best room for me to record in is our large family room that has a large couch with big cushions. When I record in my computer room I get a harsh tone I suppose from all the reflections in the smaller room.

I use a pair of AT2035 for my recordings (just got 2nd one recently). They have pretty low self noise and I get a good warm result. The problem with "microphone education" is that you spend a few $$ going up the food chain instead of just getting something decent to start with. What "decent" is depends on our budgets and ears.

The only spec that I really understand is "self noise." So based on that my next step up the food chain will be a Rode NT1, which has about half the self noise of the AT2035.

Something tells me microphones are like guitars.... They tend to multiply if you let them
__________________
Barry

Originals:
The Journey***Touched By Light***The Stone Path***

Covers:

Ciuil Amuigh**Star of the County Down**The Foggy Dew**

Avalon L2-320C
Larrivee OM-05
Guild D-120c
Guild D-55 {retired}
Gibson J-45
Martin D-16GT
3 solid top/lams
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-17-2019, 08:22 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGWelch View Post
Pulled the trigger on a used AKG P420 on Reverb, so now I'll have two condensers to work with, along with the dynamic mics. The AKG was $109, so I figured if I like it or the MXL better, I can sell one. I got the R8, so just got a chance to look it over. Should be fun to work with for some solo projects.

It's really amazing the quality of gear we can get these days. For less than $500, I've been able to put together a full recording setup that I should be able to produce very high quality recordings with. Seems like my biggest limitation will be having a location to record in that offers good acoustics and limited ambient noise. That really is the biggest challenge, seems to me, not the equipment.
The beauty of the R8 is the ability to record anywhere easily. As TBman noted, a room or location can be the biggest single factor in "good sounding" recordings. Set your R8 up for a 24 bit recording and have fun!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:56 AM
RGWelch's Avatar
RGWelch RGWelch is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 274
Default

Thanks guys. Yes, I've got a lot of rooms to work with, but also ambient noise to contend with in most of them. I'm not sure self noise in the mic will be the biggest problem for me, though I appreciate it can become a factor at some point. I agree, seems like MAS may become the new GAS! I almost pulled the trigger on an AT3035 I saw for sale on eBay used for $100, but it got away from me. I grabbed the MXL instead to get started, since it was so inexpensive and got really good reviews. Then I saw the AKG, and the different polar patterns intrigued me. It was less expensive used than a new Bahringer B2, and I trust AKG more as used eq, I hope I like it. It does have self noise of only 15db, not the worst. I can easily see trading up to an AT2035 from the MXL at some point, if that mic doesn't work out. But what I'm thinking I'd get next might be a pair of matched small diaphragm condensers. If I could find a pair of Lewitt 140 matched, that sounds like they would be ideal. But those are discontinued, so there are other options I'll look into later. I've got enough to work with now for sure.

The R8 is an amazing little tool, compact but loaded with stuff that will take me awhile to figure out what all is in there. That's why I got it, I saw all the features and realized it would keep me occupied for quite awhile. I'm sure it has it's limitations, but should keep me busy finding them. Thanks for the tip on 24-bit, the setup alone on this thing is involved. It's not a plug-n-play unit for sure.

We've come a long way from cassette recorders.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-17-2019, 02:21 PM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 38,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGWelch View Post
Thanks guys. Yes, I've got a lot of rooms to work with, but also ambient noise to contend with in most of them. I'm not sure self noise in the mic will be the biggest problem for me
HI RG

By the time you recognize self-noise, you will have gained a lot more experience, and then be able to appreciate equipment which exceeds it.

I find recording outboard audio for video, I'm rarely in a studio environment, and room noise STILL exceeds my lowliest Zoom H1n's self noise.


__________________
Larry J

Baby #01
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Full-size Full-Scale Baby #4

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued till a discussion turns silent doesn't mean you have convinced anyone…
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-17-2019, 04:58 PM
RGWelch's Avatar
RGWelch RGWelch is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 274
Default

My projects will be varied. So far I've just been recording some guitar for video music overdub, and I'll probably do more of that with the Zoom now, but I may do some direct to video performance recording, not necessarily live performance, just playing at home. But I could see doing some live recording at some point. Really not sure what projects I'll get into, we'll see where it goes.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=