Want To Buy: $$$$$ an Astrand OM .. Rose, Cocobolo, others?

[johnpublic95]

Looking for an Astrand OM .. could be New or "Pre-Owned" pics appreciated. Wait list is a few yrs out. thanks

[johnpublic95]

Mid week bump

[Marcus Wong]

Hey John! I have a build slot reserved with Ted. Drop me an email if you're interested

[johnpublic95]

I don't want a "spot" I want a guitar.. and I don't want to pay the Inflated Full Retail price Dealers charge .. that's why i put in "Pre-Owned" .. recently a Dealer offered me a less desirable "blackwood" Astrand sold twice already for near Full Retail.. I don't blame you for trying..

[Cocobolo Kid]

Originally Posted by johnpublic95

I don't want a "spot" I want a guitar.. and I don't want to pay the Inflated Full Retail price Dealers charge .. that's why i put in "Pre-Owned" .. recently a Dealer offered me a less desirable "blackwood" Astrand sold twice already for near Full Retail.. I don't blame you for trying..

Originally Posted by johnpublic95

Looking for an Astrand OM .. could be New or "Pre-Owned" pics appreciated. Wait list is a few yrs out. thanks

Looks like you said "New or Pre-Owned".

[Guitargeek94]

I think you should not be so quick to judge, Ted’s slots are very hard to come by and a sometimes take advantage of that, but The Golden Era Guitar is not one of them.

If you’re looking for a new Astrand, you best be looking at shops and be prepared to pay the overly inflated price you speak of

[Dustinfurlow]

I'd be quite interested in that Blackwood one you mentioned...if it's African Blackwood that is. I'd rank ABW as just as desirable or valuable as Brazilian tbh. Ted's guitars are rare for good reason..best of luck on your quest!

[Erithon]

Woah now, as Cocobolo Kid notes, you did say "could be New or 'Pre-Owned'" and you specifically said your motivation was to avoid the years-long wait list. Plus, like Dustin said, African Blackwood is generally considered one of the more in-demand Dalbergia. Taste in tonewood is of course subjective, but if we limit ourselves to price, well, it commands a higher one than the Cocobolo you mentioned.

Marcus is a knowledgeable guitarist with extensive connections in modern lutherie. He is generous with his time and experience, and a delight to correspond with. Guitargeek94 is right: if you work with him, you will not be paying some inflated price--you'll be paying what you would through Ted, but jump the wait-list precisely because Marcus has already laid the groundwork for you. In cases like this the builder lets his instruments go for a bit less because he knows the dealer will enable his instruments to reach hands they wouldn't otherwise and because the dealer will keep buying instruments year after year.

It sounds like you feel you've been burned in the past, and I'm sorry to hear that, but it's not The Golden Era Guitar's fault that Åstrand Guitars hold their re-sale value. That's a testament to the quality and desirability of Ted's builds.

[JJI]

Marcus was trying to help you, not take advantage. Teds work isn’t on the used market...folks who own one rarely let them go.

[Dustinfurlow]

Originally Posted by Erithon

It sounds like you feel you've been burned in the past, and I'm sorry to hear that, but it's not The Golden Era Guitar's fault that Åstrand Guitars hold their re-sale value. That's a testament to the quality and desirability of Ted's builds.

+1 for Marcus Wong, I've enjoyed corresponding with him regularly since meeting at Woodstock this past October. I haven't bought a guitar from him yet but I'm certain I will at some point. He's an exceptional fingerstyle player and has a real passion for great builders' guitars.

[Marcus Wong]

Thanks for the support guys! Really appreciate every single one of you

Like others have said, I don't charge an inflated price for a build slot. It would be as Ted has determined the price to be. His list is really quite long - I had one reserved since 2017 and it's not going to be coming up for at least another year, so perhaps this wouldn't be relevant for you John as the wait might be not what you're after.

All the best with your search. Ted's reputation and guitars are stellar!

[johnpublic95]

I did.. have you never bought a "new" guitar for less than full Dealer mark up? sometimes from a Private individual who changed their mind or got cold feet or discovered they really couldn't afford it? I have.. a number of times.. also it was partly just throwing it out there to get replies from anyone who might be aware of one for sale or coming soon to be available.. there are many routes for finding instruments.. do you feel I have mislead anyone? If so please accept my apology

Let me clear something up if that is possible.. from all the feedback it is obvious some readers assumed I was being harsh or critical of Marcus who I have never met or corresponded with as far as I can recall.. I have bought many acoustics in my roughly 50 yrs of playing from Dealers.. one of the best no longer exists.. the Podium here in Minneapolis was a great resource and helped me many times. My Father was a business man his whole Life and I have been one for many years.. I do not begrudge anyone making a living in whatever legal manner that is.. I apologize to Marcus and anyone else who took my reply to be critical or harsh.. sometimes emails and texts can be totally taken wrong due to the brevity or lack of emotional coloring or whatever you call it. It is nothing more than me trying to find a guitar at the lowest possible price. I am quite aware of the wait list and scarcity of Astrand OM's. And thanks to my post I was offered one in near Mint for $8,000. btw: I own a Gabon Ebony Brondel. Again, my apologies to anyone who was offended by my response to Marcus, including Marcus, of course.

[steveh]

Originally Posted by Marcus Wong

Like others have said, I don't charge an inflated price for a build slot. It would be as Ted has determined the price to be.

That's true, but that price is nowhere near the price before Ted decided to go with dealerships.

Just to be clear, this is no slight on Marcus nor on dealers, but the clear facts are that luthiers prices go skywards rapidly once they start exclusive releationships with a dealer. Perhaps the best examples of this phenomenon are the Somogyi apprentices. They start their own shop, prices are (relatively) affordable, and then some enter an "exclusive" distribution deal. The net result is that prices pretty much double overnight.

Ted Astrand is a case in point: A very good friend of mine tried to order one a couple of years ago but when he pulled the tigger he found the price had exploded overnight contingent on an arrangement with a UK dealership. He was told this was due to "opportunity cost". He went with someone else.

Now, we're not idiots and everyone understands that dealers need to make a profit but where is that profit made? Either the luthier sells his/her guitars to the dealer for less than the base price or the margin is built into the price to customer. It has to be one or the other (or likely a bit of both) or noone can feed their children.

In the classical guitar world the equation seems a little simpler: A; Go straight to the luthier, get the guitar at base price and then wait a few years or, B; Go to a dealer and pay quite a bit more but take it home today. That seems fair and equitable to both customer and dealer/luthier.

In contrast, what I am seeing more of in the steel-string world is that the luthier direct price is the same as from the dealer, i.e. in effect the customer is obliged to use the dealership, and the asking price is very high compared to pre-dealership levels. That's not speculation, it's fact. There are a ton of us around here familiar with luthiers base prices and what happened to those subsequent to exclusive relations developing. Several luthiers have also spoken to me of promises that their base price will rise +++ once a dealer takes control of advertising etc etc. What luthier wouldn't want that?

Now, many will argue that the added cost to customer is contingent on the added value that the dealer brings, and I'm not about to argue the wrongs or rights of that. What I can say is that, to the "average Joe" in the street, there is a chasm between a 5K guitar that becomes 10K overnight, or more. An affordable guitar becomes unaffordable. I know, it's happened to several of my own guitars.

Cheers,
Steve

[steveh]

...and before I shut up, don't get me started about VAT (value-added-tax in the UK).

The vast majority of luthiers get nowhere near the annual turnover required to trigger VAT charges (which is just over 80K IIRC). However, dealers do.

So, overnight the guitar price to you, the customer, goes up at least 20%, solely on the basis of added taxes.

Cheers,
Steve

[johnpublic95]

Steve,

I have already gotten myself (unintentionally I assure you) into enough trouble today so all I will say is thanks for what you have added to this post today. The AGF guy who offered me the Astrand OM for $8,000. changed his mind at the last moment (Rats! but I have done that myself so I totally understand) so I am still looking if anybody has any leads? And if I (unintentionally) made myself sound like a tightwad you wouldn't want to deal with I paid $14,000 last yr to a very well known Calif. dealer for a new Brondel so if the guitar is one that I want i have been known to pay the dough. I have 4th Stage Incurable GAS !! what can I say? Thanks to all and remember you don't get better unless you practice!!! Jay