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  #31  
Old 05-28-2018, 09:54 AM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
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Now it's golden strings on eagles wings
to the calling of the squares
Now there's fiddle tunes, and there's fiddle tunes
But Virginia's splitting hairs!

Nut compensation is about .012" or so, assume .015". That introduces an error of 0.03" to the measurement. Are you measuring with an instrument that will give that kind of precision over that length? Can you judge the break points at the nut and saddle that accurately?

Average pitch perception is about 3 cents, so for most practical purposes, that's close enough. There are those individuals that can perceive 1 cent, but then nothing sounds in tune to them anyway. That's the nature of equal temperament. There are procedures to get every note on the fretboard within a couple of cents of equal temperament, but that's only beneficial to the most discerning listener. Normal practice of setting intonation at the twelfth fret by adjusting the saddle is almost always good enough, particularly if a little nut compensation is included.
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  #32  
Old 05-28-2018, 10:15 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
Yes, eliminating the first gap and using math can calculate the actual scale length, unless Buzz Feiten is involved.
You lost me there. Feiten has specific compensation values for nut and saddle but otherwise the fret positions are standard 12th root of 2. So as long as you can "accurately" measure the distance between any two frets, Feiten's setup doesn't alter one's ability to determine the scale length. Am I missing something? Inquiring minds 'n' all.
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  #33  
Old 05-28-2018, 09:15 PM
bausin bausin is offline
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>> This could be done with the accurate measurement of any single fret gap if one knew which one it was. I do not have accurate enough tools for the precision thus would involve.

No need to introduce red herrings into this. No one, besides yourself, was suggesting calculating scale length from adjacent frets. Measuring over an octave increases the precision by an order of magnitude.
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  #34  
Old 05-28-2018, 09:25 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
You lost me there. Feiten has specific compensation values for nut and saddle but otherwise the fret positions are standard 12th root of 2. So as long as you can "accurately" measure the distance between any two frets, Feiten's setup doesn't alter one's ability to determine the scale length. Am I missing something? Inquiring minds 'n' all.
I built a prototype Tapitar instrument for a fellow a few years ago (I'm named on the patent!) and he (Tractor Topaz) paid Feiten for a compensation system that involved not only nut compensation, but also compensation to the first few frets. That's all I really know about it, and I am not a fan, but that is definitely what happened.
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  #35  
Old 05-28-2018, 09:32 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bausin View Post
>> This could be done with the accurate measurement of any single fret gap if one knew which one it was. I do not have accurate enough tools for the precision thus would involve.

No need to introduce red herrings into this. No one, besides yourself, was suggesting calculating scale length from adjacent frets. Measuring over an octave increases the precision by an order of magnitude.
Hey, I did think you were kidding, and I see you're not. I did not mean to offend, and I apologize for my misunderstanding. Myself, I'm just having fun with ways we MIGHT calculate scale length, which I understood to be the OP's query. I believe I understand this subject area very well, but I have no corner on the market.
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  #36  
Old 05-29-2018, 06:39 PM
bausin bausin is offline
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>> I'm just having fun with ways we MIGHT calculate scale length ...

After a little thought, I realized that it is much easier to calculate the scale length by measuring the distance from the 1st to 13th fret, as you and redir suggested. Just multiply that distance by 2 ^ -12 and double it.
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  #37  
Old 05-29-2018, 08:54 PM
yellowesty yellowesty is offline
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If you want "easy," just say that your scale length is 25". If you want "correct," follow the suggestions Bruce makes in post #27.
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  #38  
Old 06-01-2018, 10:14 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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John, so you are saying that the scale length Martin states is based upon the first string total length...??

Yes. All it takes to verify that fact is a Martin and some measuring skill.
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  #39  
Old 06-02-2018, 01:51 PM
bausin bausin is offline
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Just for fun, I measured the scale length of my all original 1964 D-18. I measured from the front of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret, doubled it, and got 25.25".
Then, I measured from the middle of the 1st fret to the middle of the 13th fret, multiplied by 2 ^ -12, doubled it, and got 25.29".
Finally, measuring the 1st string between the nut and saddle, I measured 25.31" (25 5/16").
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