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  #46  
Old 01-16-2020, 07:20 AM
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yukonkornelius yukonkornelius is offline
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Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
I’m on board and already doing my part.
I wouldn’t spend that much for a pick to start with.
You’re doing your part by not buying something that you wouldn’t have bought anyway? (bangs head against wall)
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  #47  
Old 01-16-2020, 10:00 AM
619TF 619TF is offline
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Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
Folks, I generally want to stay out of the way in this thread, as I'd prefer everyone to have a free hand in sharing their opinion openly.

However, I wanted to briefly comment on Allen's post.

Allen, I concur 100% with what you're saying here. As the only other company in the marketplace who has worked extensively with this material, I can confirm that BC is likely just squeaking by on their margins. To the best of my knowledge, DuPont Vespel is the single most expensive industrial plastic in the industry. It's absurb. And it's no picnic to machine, either.

Blue Chip has earned the legal right to protect their enterprise from competition. I'd be doing the same thing if our positions were reversed. No, they are not getting rich with that stuff, not at those prices. And I actually think this patent is good for all the high-end pick manufacturers, as it proves that what we're marketing is scientifically valid and demonstrably superior.

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

scott
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  #48  
Old 01-16-2020, 10:33 AM
Carmel Cedar Carmel Cedar is offline
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Originally Posted by 619TF View Post
Pure class response.
Agreed! Scott has earned deeper respect from me for his approach.

As a reminder for folks crying foul/unfair/etc. - the US Patent system was created in 1790 to advance our economy, by providing a temporary monopoly (exclusive right to practice) for 20 years after filing (current law). This is in exchange for sharing the details of the invention with the world in the published patent, so others can build on it after exclusivity expires. That way, innovators have an incentive to share their 'secret sauce' and the entire economy/society advances.

Despite flaws and aberrations in the system over the last 2+ centuries, the US patent system can be seen as an incentive and driver for tremendous innovation, with many benefits to our economy and society.

Scott, thank you for playing fair, and taking a positive, strategic view to the issue facing your business.
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  #49  
Old 01-16-2020, 10:55 AM
cdkrugjr cdkrugjr is offline
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See, right now it’s two guys we like making products we like.

But eventually some Big Corporation with a lot of money to throw at attorneys is going to take a crack at this.

The first question they’re gonna ask is “Was BC making covered picks And protecting their IP.” If they aren’t protecting it, they will then try to make the case they’ve abandoned the IP, or possibly by not enforcing it vs CL “waiting to entrap deep pockets.””

So BC Has to protect it vs CL against the day when someone Big comes along.

Hope they can work out licensing
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  #50  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:49 AM
RedJoker RedJoker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmel Cedar View Post
Agreed! Scott has earned deeper respect from me for his approach.

As a reminder for folks crying foul/unfair/etc. - the US Patent system was created in 1790 to advance our economy, by providing a temporary monopoly (exclusive right to practice) for 20 years after filing (current law). This is in exchange for sharing the details of the invention with the world in the published patent, so others can build on it after exclusivity expires. That way, innovators have an incentive to share their 'secret sauce' and the entire economy/society advances.

Despite flaws and aberrations in the system over the last 2+ centuries, the US patent system can be seen as an incentive and driver for tremendous innovation, with many benefits to our economy and society.

Scott, thank you for playing fair, and taking a positive, strategic view to the issue facing your business.
Excellent post. Another side note, there have been a ton of innovations made in trying to get around patents. For instance, if Company A launches a product covered by a patent that is hugely successful, Company B will likely look at that patent and figure out a different way to build that product to try to gain market share. Company C now has documents of two different ways something can be done and may chose to figure out a third way or they'll chose a different path altogether as a way to differentiate themselves.
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  #51  
Old 01-16-2020, 08:34 PM
Acoustic Wolf Acoustic Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
Folks, I generally want to stay out of the way in this thread, as I'd prefer everyone to have a free hand in sharing their opinion openly.

However, I wanted to briefly comment on Allen's post.

Allen, I concur 100% with what you're saying here. As the only other company in the marketplace who has worked extensively with this material, I can confirm that BC is likely just squeaking by on their margins. To the best of my knowledge, DuPont Vespel is the single most expensive industrial plastic in the industry. It's absurb. And it's no picnic to machine, either.

Blue Chip has earned the legal right to protect their enterprise from competition. I'd be doing the same thing if our positions were reversed. No, they are not getting rich with that stuff, not at those prices. And I actually think this patent is good for all the high-end pick manufacturers, as it proves that what we're marketing is scientifically valid and demonstrably superior.

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

scott
I guess the same kind of comment would apply to pharmaceutical drugs. Although there are drugs on the market available at the moment for exorbitant prices that alleviate a lot of disease, they are patented, so as to prevent other makers to offer generic versions at lower prices. Whilst such generic drugs would greatly benefit those who need them and cannot afford them, the original makers of those drugs have the right to profit from them.
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  #52  
Old 01-16-2020, 08:35 PM
Acoustic Wolf Acoustic Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
I'd be doing the same thing if our positions were reversed.
So Charmed Life Black is going to be patented?
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  #53  
Old 01-16-2020, 08:37 PM
Acoustic Wolf Acoustic Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmel Cedar View Post
As a reminder for folks crying foul/unfair/etc. - the US Patent system was created in 1790 to advance our economy, by providing a temporary monopoly (exclusive right to practice) for 20 years after filing (current law).
I mean, that's obviously what they wanted you to believe of course, that there was some altruistic motive for it, and not because they wanted to prevent other people from competing with them in order to continue making profits. Any argument could be made like that, for example, I believe if we cut the corporate taxes for large corporations like Google and Amazon, such system would be created to advance our economy, by providing them ultimate freedom to create better products without having to worry about taxes, which will ultimately benefit consumers. I just made that up, but it's just to demonstrate that you can say anything and claim some sort of great philosophy behind it.
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  #54  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:27 AM
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I have BC and CL vespel picks. Different bevels, finish, and texture. My hands, ears, and guitars lean towards the CL picks. I'm very annoyed with BC for this move. Very glad I have 2 of these CL picks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raysachs View Post
FWIW, I was personally barely able to tell the difference between Scott's brown and black picks. So if the brown ones have been pulled, I'd recommend that anyone give the black ones a try. They're technically a different material, and I can't guarantee there isn't some subtle difference. But there sure isn't MUCH of a difference and one I'm sure I wouldn't be able to detect in a blind test...

-Ray
I find that the black picks have a more tame high end. I suppose these might be good for a bright guitar and/or for people who want less treble. I want the extra brightness with my tone.
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  #55  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by s2y View Post
I find that the black picks have a more tame high end. I suppose these might be good for a bright guitar and/or for people who want less treble. I want the extra brightness with my tone.
Well there's casein... I have a couple of vespel picks I use when I want to take the edge off and reduce brightness. I mostly use casein, which is brighter but not harshly so...

But yeah, I get it - you've found what works for you and you're bummed that it's been taken off the market. If I had a nickel for every time THAT'S happened, I could probably afford to bring some of those things back onto the market...

-Ray
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  #56  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raysachs View Post
Well there's casein... I have a couple of vespel picks I use when I want to take the edge off and reduce brightness. I mostly use casein, which is brighter but not harshly so...

But yeah, I get it - you've found what works for you and you're bummed that it's been taken off the market. If I had a nickel for every time THAT'S happened, I could probably afford to bring some of those things back onto the market...

-Ray
I also have the casein CL picks. I like them on my dreadnoughts. I sadly lost my blue pick. I forgot to lock my guitar room and the 4 year old invaded and conquered.
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  #57  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:28 AM
619TF 619TF is offline
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Originally Posted by Acoustic Wolf View Post
I mean, that's obviously what they wanted you to believe of course, that there was some altruistic motive for it, and not because they wanted to prevent other people from competing with them in order to continue making profits. Any argument could be made like that, for example, I believe if we cut the corporate taxes for large corporations like Google and Amazon, such system would be created to advance our economy, by providing them ultimate freedom to create better products without having to worry about taxes, which will ultimately benefit consumers. I just made that up, but it's just to demonstrate that you can say anything and claim some sort of great philosophy behind it.
Wow. Talk about your false analogy. Just because you don't like the system doesn't mean there's a nefarious rationale behind it. Sure it's to allow folks to make money but not because of a lack of competition. It's because it prevents people from stealing the hard work of others for a limited period of time after the inventor created it. Your analogy about the rationale is akin to saying that voting should be eliminated because that would free people up from concerning themselves with who runs their country and so the people can focus on important things like their families and jobs. I mean taking the time to learn about what you're voting for might take you away from focusing on those other things.

The funniest thing to me about this thread is that the parties actually involved both understand this and apparently are willing to abide by the law. It's the people who simply don't get it that are complaining. I'd bet that'd change really fast if they had actually created something and gone through the time and expense to patent protect it.
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  #58  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:25 AM
DesertTwang DesertTwang is offline
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Well, as a professional journalist, I would like to remind ourselves that it is always a good idea to "hear both sides" before taking any action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
I think it's appropriate as consumers to have competition in the marketplace. Who's this BC guy to say he's the only one to make a guitar pick. It doesn't matter that Scott is opposed we should throw shade!
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  #59  
Old 02-10-2020, 11:02 PM
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It's been about four weeks now since this thread began, and it's given me some time to reflect.

Thanks for all who contributed to this discussion. Life is very good. Our daughter will present with us our first grandchild in June. All the most important things in our family's life are in place. That will always be our priority.

Sometimes we get worked up about things which at the time seem really upsetting, but on reflection seem pretty minor. The long view is the best view.

Thanks again for adding to this discussion. Appreciate it.

Scott Memmer
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  #60  
Old 02-11-2020, 08:50 AM
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Scott, class act as always!
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