#1
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Wide/Narrow grain on spruce tops ???
I would like some opinions/wisdom about this.
I assume that wide grain indicates faster growth than narrow grain, and so the latter indicates an older tree ??? What is considered best tonally and/or cosmetically? Also I have this lovely new Eastman guitar (said to have an "adi" top)which compared to my other guitars looks extremely pallid. Is there a way to speed the darkening process? Thanks in advance. (edited to correct my careless spelling)
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! Last edited by Silly Moustache; 01-17-2020 at 08:00 AM. |
#2
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Wide grain vs narrow is usually traceable back to how much precipitation the tree received during the years it was growing.
( wide = lots of precip and narrow = less)
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"Schutzhund, because perp's aren't just for breakfast anymore" |
#3
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I've enjoyed guitars all over the board when it comes to grain... I do like the look of a slightly wider grain though. madhat. |
#4
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The length of the growing season, which may correlate to the amount of moisture (as rain) the tree receives is a factor. (Elevation and latitude are indicators here.) So, "faster" means that it gets bigger in the same timespan, perhaps, but the tree isn't really growing faster - it just has more time within which it can grow, assuming we're talking the same or comparable species and other factors, like soil, nutrients, etc.
So, wider grain could mean younger, but it could also just mean it was a bigger tree. Grain width alone doesn't mean that the wood is softer, if that's the concern. Of course, if you're comparing yellow pine in the US Gulf Coast with Alpine spruce, that's different. P.S. Photo-chemically reactive lacquer might darken if you hang your guitar outside in the sun. You might also soften the glue or expose it to an unexpected rainstorm! Or, you can get a UV light and try that if you're in a hurry. Or hang out a lot in smoky bars with the case open, perhaps.
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"I know in the morning that it's gonna be good, when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen |
#5
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In most cases of guitar top spruce a narrow growth ring indicates an old growth tree. Trees that grow in an older forest with more canopy. Each ring indicates one summers growth. I have no opinion on how it affects tone but I don't like a wide grain pattern visually. Tight in the center of the top and getting larger close to the edge, is to me a perfect looking top. Sunlight will darken the top over time. It takes awhile but I have seen it happen in a few years.
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#6
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The other question was about tone.
As I understand it , the narrower grain wood tends to be stiffer, which kinda makes sense - sort of like a wall with more studs, closer together. So I think whichever attributes you can ascribe to a stiffer top would apply. Such as brighter sound, clearer more articulate ringing, more volume "headroom" but less responsive to a light touch. But I am making all that up from what seems to make sense in my head.....I think it's right, but I don't have objective evidence to back me up.
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Fazool "The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter" Taylor GC7, GA3-12, SB2-C, SB2-Cp...... Ibanez AVC-11MHx , AC-240 |
#7
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Beats me! I just keep playing guitars until I find the one that sounds best.
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Keith Martin 000-42 Marquis Taylor Classical Alvarez 12 String Gibson ES345s Fender P-Bass Gibson tenor banjo |
#8
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In general, the growth rate of a spruce tree is determined primarily by the availability of light. Second growth trees grow faster because they have less competition for light. In my experience, there is no correlation between grain width and stiffness or density. Those are the qualities that affect the performance.
Tight grain is associated with vintage guitars, when old growth spruce was the norm. IMHO, that is the only valid reason for favoring it over wide grain. Looks, basically. Spruce darkens on exposure to UV light. |
#9
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Personally I do not give a fig about grain. My favorite guitar has a top which looks like somebody scrounged through the scrap pile for a useable piece.
But one thing I have always wondered is that it is common for violins to have a close grain at the center widening at the edges. I figured that this was because the closer the grain the denser the wood which would, in theory, impact sound. But that might only be a factor given the size difference between a fiddle and a guitar.
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"You start off playing guitars to get girls & end up talking with middle-aged men about your fingernails" - Ed Gerhard |
#10
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In some species, growth rate and resulting width of annual growth rings, impacts strength. In conifers (especially uneven grain species like Douglas fir), the band of denser & stronger latewood is least affected by growth rate. Therefore, as a softwood tree grows faster the wider rings have a larger proportion of weaker earlywood, and the wood will be weaker on average.
In ring porous hardwoods (like oak and ash) it’s opposite; the width of large pored earlywood doesn’t vary much. So the rate of growth in faster grown hardwood (with wider rings) is represented by having a greater percentage of denser & stronger latewood. Wide ringed wood of these species will be stronger on average. Growth rate has virtually no predictable relationship to the strength of diffuse porous hardwoods. How all this relates to guitar tone is less understood, at least by me. |
#11
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1. An E10D, which was Adirondack and Mahogany. The top was wide grained and very light. White-ish. 2. An E8D, which was Sitka and Rosewood. The top was fine grained and a little darker. Yellow-ish. The owner/luthier said: The old-growth eastern Adirondack forests were harvested long ago, the trees today are fast-growing second-growth, just getting big and old enough again for instruments, and the wider rings make the wood lighter and sound better. Old growth Sitka can still be found in the northwest, and narrow rings make the wood denser and look darker. I bought two Eastman guitars in 2019: 1. A new 2018 E20OM with Adirondack top. The top was obnoxiously light, but has become slightly darker after almost a year. 2. A used ~2015 E20P with Adirondack top. Its top is darker than the OM, a normal shade. So Adirondack is naturally light due to the less density of rings, will darken with time, but new or old, will not be as dark as Sitka
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https://soundcloud.com/user-871798293/sets/sound-cloud-playlist/s-29kw5 Eastman E20-OM Yamaha CSF3M Last edited by vintage40s; 01-17-2020 at 08:01 AM. |
#12
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sunlight would darken the top...... |
#13
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I offer this just in terms of spruce darkening over time. The guitar in the center was completed this past July and is German Spruce. The guitar on the right was made in 2004 and is also German Spruce. I do store my guitars in cases when they are not being played. So, it does take some time for tops to darken but leaving them out in sunlight does speed up the process. I have an adi topped guitar from 2014 that I acquired as the first owner in early 2018 and it is still creamy white.
Best, Jayne |
#14
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#15
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While many guitarists prefer the aesthetics of tighter grain, it doesn't follow logically that this would result in a better tonewood. Play the guitar. If it sounds good, it is good, regardless of grain pattern.
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