000 vs 0M Question

[mawmow]

I once heard this : An OOO is quite an OM with capo first fret.

We have to put emphasis on scale lenght and fret no. at neck joint I guess.

[blindboyjimi]

Boy, answers all over the place. It makes perfect sense to the Martin folks like me. There have been a bunch of partial answers. It has to do with having a a history since 1833. All regular models (series 18 and above) made in Nazareth separate the body size from model designation.

Body size is either 000-12 or 000-14

Any guitar 000/OM coming down the line will be one of these bodies.

The elongated bodies (prototypically built from 1926-1929):

The 000-12 fret was the largest, most powerful guitar of the day (We are ignoring the Ditson branded guitars built by Martin as they were not labeled “Martin” until the first D-1/D-2 dreadnoughts of 1931). Guitars were moving from small parlors into bands and orchestras. The older gut stringed instruments were being transitioned to being braced for steel string and much louder. The 000-12 is an elongated upper bout that envelopes the 14th and 13th frets. (The bridge only moves very subtly about 3/8” compared to the future 000-14 fretted instruments. Gibson was moving bridges on their 12/14 fret instruments Martin was really not.) These are historically long scale 25.4” and wider nut width 1 13/16” x 2 3/8”. The 00-12 is historically built with the elongated body and 1 7/8” x 2 3/8” and 24.9” scale. The 00-12 has a subtly smaller sound hole which add bass via Helmholtz resonance. The 0-12 is similarly built but it is subtly wider to give it a bass boost as well.

The OM (prototypically built from 1929-1933): The story of Perry Bechtel and the OM is well known (http://onemanz.com/guitar/reviews/ac...rtin/om-story/). The idea was to elongate the neck and make it thinner as banjo players were picking up guitars and wanted access to higher frets and a more projecting guitar for the dance orchestras of the day. So they made the OM by shortening the upper bout of the 000-12 to give access to the 13th and 14th frets, the neck was narrowed to 1 3/4” the string spacing was left at 2 3/8” and the scale length left at 25.4 (technically 25.2 if you’re a Martin nerd). This was a very strong and projecting guitar. When the OM was built Martin stopped producing the 000-12.

Now in 1934 there were guitars coming back with warranty cracks around the fretboard as the tension of the heavier strings of the day were causing havoc. Martin stopped producing the OM in favor of a similar guitar with subtle differences which they confusingly called the 000 again. The scale length shortened to 24.9” to reduce tension, an upper brace was added, and for whatever reason the saddle width changed to 2 5/16”. In mid 1939, there were more strummers and rhythm playing in bands and the bracing was rear shifted to give focus and less stress on the bridge. The nut was narrowed to 1 11/16” and the saddle was narrowed to 2 1/8”. Bracing gradually changed in the 40’s from scalloped to tapered and gradually the bracing was heavier and heavier culminating in the 70s. Things got crazy in the 80s through present as the OM was re-introduced and the 000-12s while still keeping the 000-14 fret short scale guitars as Martin kept introducing more models from the their past while continuing models that sold well. Martin started saying that their biggest competition was older Martin guitars so they began introducing Golden Era series, and the the Authentics.

Finally, when they get into current times when making less expensive guitars (thicker tops and laminate back and sides, etc) the names were similar to the more expensive guitars but they would put longer scales on the 15, 16 and 17 series guitars as the heavier braced guitars need the long scale to be loud enough and keeping guitars on an assembling essentially the same.

One weird signature guitar that is frequently written about here as it throws everybody off:

The neck can join @ the 12 or 14 fret only on the 000-14 body. How can that be? Well, the Martin Norman Blake 000-18NB, 000-28NB, and 000-28NBB build sheets specify 000-14 bodies with a 12 fret neck. This model is one of the rule breakers but it was a custom run from only 2006-8 or so.

I have now spotted some bizarre custom shop guitars that use the 0000 body as both 0000-12 and 0000-14 guitars. These are completely custom and therefore can have any option that Martin is willing to warranty.

So there are many things that the Martin nerds dislike with current naming trends like “forward shifted” since historically OM/D guitars from the Golden Era were always braced the same and the shift was rearward, etc. There are also folks that call all 000-14s OMs. That’s because if you play vintage guitars and see a 12 fret and a 14 fret guitar across the room, you’d say pass me that OM and everyone would know to pass the 14 fret guitar. Eric Clapton is one of these frequently referring to his signature guitars as OMs when technically only the OM-ECHF Navy Blues is an OM. All the others are triple 0’s.......Got it?

Below is a 1935 L-0 14 fret along a newer Waterloo 12 fret L-00 copy. Note the large shift in bridge position, but the exact same body and scale length. Whereas the OM-18 on the far right and the 1937 000-18 share a very similar bridge position. The 000-18NB in the middle is the weird one built like a Gibson by adding a 12 fret neck to a 14 fret body. Notice how the Waterloo and the NB are so much shorter than the others and since their construction is similar, note that the sound hole is now at the waist, so it’s not just the bridge position that dictates the tone but sound hole size and position. I’d add my 000-12 fret but it is getting the worlds longest neck re-set as it’s been gone over a year.

IMG_0267.jpg

Hope this helps.

[Paddy1951]

Originally Posted by blindboyjimi

Boy, answers all over the place. It makes perfect sense to the Martin folks like me. There have been a bunch of partial answers. It has to do with having a a history since 1833. All regular models (series 18 and above) made in Nazareth separate the body size from model designation.

Body size is either 000-12 or 000-14

Any guitar 000/OM coming down the line will be one of these bodies.

The elongated bodies (prototypically built from 1926-1929):

The 000-12 fret was the largest, most powerful guitar of the day (We are ignoring the Ditson branded guitars built by Martin as they were not labeled “Martin” until the first D-1/D-2 dreadnoughts of 1931). Guitars were moving from small parlors into bands and orchestras. The older gut stringed instruments were being transitioned to being braced for steel string and much louder. The 000-12 is an elongated upper bout that envelopes the 14th and 13th frets. (The bridge only moves very subtly about 3/8” compared to the future 000-14 fretted instruments. Gibson was moving bridges on their 12/14 fret instruments Martin was really not.) These are historically long scale 25.4” and wider nut width 1 13/16” x 2 3/8”. The 00-12 is historically built with the elongated body and 1 7/8” x 2 3/8” and 24.9” scale. The 00-12 has a subtly smaller sound hole which add bass via Helmholtz resonance. The 0-12 is similarly built but it is subtly wider to give it a bass boost as well.

The OM (prototypically built from 1929-1933): The story of Perry Bechtel and the OM is well known (http://onemanz.com/guitar/reviews/ac...rtin/om-story/). The idea was to elongate the neck and make it thinner as banjo players were picking up guitars and wanted access to higher frets and a more projecting guitar for the dance orchestras of the day. So they made the OM by shortening the upper bout of the 000-12 to give access to the 13th and 14th frets, the neck was narrowed to 1 3/4” the string spacing was left at 2 3/8” and the scale length left at 25.4 (technically 25.2 if you’re a Martin nerd). This was a very strong and projecting guitar. When the OM was built Martin stopped producing the 000-12.

Now in 1934 there were guitars coming back with warranty cracks around the fretboard as the tension of the heavier strings of the day were causing havoc. Martin stopped producing the OM in favor of a similar guitar with subtle differences which they confusingly called the 000 again. The scale length shortened to 24.9” to reduce tension, an upper brace was added, and for whatever reason the saddle width changed to 2 5/16”. In mid 1939, there were more strummers and rhythm playing in bands and the bracing was rear shifted to give focus and less stress on the bridge. The nut was narrowed to 1 11/16” and the saddle was narrowed to 2 1/8”. Bracing gradually changed in the 40’s from scalloped to tapered and gradually the bracing was heavier and heavier culminating in the 70s. Things got crazy in the 80s through present as the OM was re-introduced and the 000-12s while still keeping the 000-14 fret short scale guitars as Martin kept introducing more models from the their past while continuing models that sold well. Martin started saying that their biggest competition was older Martin guitars so they began introducing Golden Era series, and the the Authentics.

Finally, when they get into current times when making less expensive guitars (thicker tops and laminate back and sides, etc) the names were similar to the more expensive guitars but they would put longer scales on the 15, 16 and 17 series guitars as the heavier braced guitars need the long scale to be loud enough and keeping guitars on an assembling essentially the same.

One weird signature guitar that is frequently written about here as it throws everybody off:

The neck can join @ the 12 or 14 fret only on the 000-14 body. How can that be? Well, the Martin Norman Blake 000-18NB, 000-28NB, and 000-28NBB build sheets specify 000-14 bodies with a 12 fret neck. This model is one of the rule breakers but it was a custom run from only 2006-8 or so.

I have now spotted some bizarre custom shop guitars that use the 0000 body as both 0000-12 and 0000-14 guitars. These are completely custom and therefore can have any option that Martin is willing to warranty.

So there are many things that the Martin nerds dislike with current naming trends like “forward shifted” since historically OM/D guitars from the Golden Era were always braced the same and the shift was rearward, etc. There are also folks that call all 000-14s OMs. That’s because if you play vintage guitars and see a 12 fret and a 14 fret guitar across the room, you’d say pass me that OM and everyone would know to pass the 14 fret guitar. Eric Clapton is one of these frequently referring to his signature guitars as OMs when technically only the OM-ECHF Navy Blues is an OM. All the others are triple 0’s.......Got it?

Below is a 1935 L-0 14 fret along a newer Waterloo 12 fret L-00 copy. Note the large shift in bridge position, but the exact same body and scale length. Whereas the OM-18 on the far right and the 1937 000-18 share a very similar bridge position. The 000-18NB in the middle is the weird one built like a Gibson by adding a 12 fret neck to a 14 fret body. Notice how the Waterloo and the NB are so much shorter than the others and since their construction is similar, note that the sound hole is now at the waist, so it’s not just the bridge position that dictates the tone but sound hole size and position. I’d add my 000-12 fret but it is getting the worlds longest neck re-set as it’s been gone over a year.

Attachment 22585

Hope this helps.

You were a history major, yes?[emoji4]

Thanks for the 000/OM lesson. Interesting and confusing.