Which Monitor

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Interesting so essentially you're saying you are going to record in one location then mix in a different location. Not sure why you would want to do that but that's a different discussion.

I have always had monitor speakers I can't say unequivocally about only using them but I have also always had had HP's and I have mixed on them quite a bit ( I often have to mix quietly when the family is home)

But regardless of one room or two. The trade off will be the same as in my first post. You will still not escape trade off of mixing on HP vs. Speakers

That said you can learn to mix on just HP's just like you can learn to mix in a room with reflection issues. Either one is a learning curve
So :
Yes you can learn to mix on decent pair of HP's. However usually open back are usually the preferred design for mixing.


I actually have Senn 280's also, which I have used for checking detail while mixing . Now I only use them for for tracking as I have a pair of Senn. 600 HD I use for mixing quiety and for checking the detail a bit closer. But anything I start off mixing on the HP's I always also use my speakers later to check overall balance , L to R and front to back spatial placement. All three of which are harder to get right in HP's

My guitar playing room is fairly small (about 10x10) but multitasks as a fitness/yoga room that I share with my wife. It actually works for both better than you might imagine. That said, I don't have the room for DAW workstation desk and monitors. In another room, we are going to set up a workstation desk that both my wife and I will use equipped with a large monitor and wireless keyboard/mouse that we can both use with our laptops. I'll be running DAW and other music related tasks. My wife will primarily be working on Photoshop projects. So I have to be wise in setting up monitors to keep the "domestic peace" thus opting to use headphones for a while for editing and mixing until I find a monitor solution compatible with what we will have.

I did not want to seem argumentative to the great suggestions here and I'm just as interested in monitor selections as the OP.

Thanks!

[virob]

Lots of good comments. Thanks.

To be honest, I had not thought about room treatment, in fact looking at my current setup, it was never set up for recording, and if I want to do this properly, I should first rearrange a few things before even getting to room treatments.
From the comments, it sounds like a waste of money going for monitors of this quality without doing the other stuff first.

I think I need to take a step back, and knock down my monitor budget to $200-300. I do have a good set of Sennheiser 580 headphones which is what I am currently using.


Jim1960
I did think about front vs rear ported speakers, the Neumann’s are front ported, the dynaudio’s rear, but Dyn’s sounded better against the wall.

MikeBmusic
A question. If room effect is so critical, making it impossible to effectively audition speakers in a store, how do decide what to buy?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by virob

I did think about front vs rear ported speakers, the Neumann’s are front ported, the dynaudio’s rear, but Dyn’s sounded better against the wall.

The bigger the room, the less pronounced the problem will be. In your original post, you said, "I have limited space..." In a small room the problem will be much more noticeable.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by virob

Lots of good comments. Thanks.

To be honest, I had not thought about room treatment, in fact looking at my current setup, it was never set up for recording, and if I want to do this properly, I should first rearrange a few things before even getting to room treatments.
From the comments, it sounds like a waste of money going for monitors of this quality without doing the other stuff first.

I think I need to take a step back, and knock down my monitor budget to $200-300. I do have a good set of Sennheiser 580 headphones which is what I am currently using.


Jim1960
I did think about front vs rear ported speakers, the Neumann’s are front ported, the dynaudio’s rear, but Dyn’s sounded better against the wall.

MikeBmusic
A question. If room effect is so critical, making it impossible to effectively audition speakers in a store, how do decide what to buy?

The room plays a role in the sound, but you can always hear what the speakers are doing. don't psych yourself out. If you listen to 3 sets of speakers in a store they are all in the same space and therefore on equal footing. Also...turn them down and move in close - you minimize the effect of the room reflections & standing waves and get a good sense of the sound of the speakers themselves...provided you are familiar with what you're listening to.

A note on room treatment. A little goes a long way - but you need to know what you're fixing before you get into it...and to do that you need decent speakers...not the other way around. You treat the room for the speaker's response in the room. Otherwise you're just throwing money away by trying to fix an issue that you aren't having yet...or worse fixing an issue that doesn't exist on your final choice of monitors.

So to counter what has been said: Monitors first, then room treatment. If you treat the room without your final monitors you will then have to re-treat to account for the monitors. Treating the room first is like buying new strings for a guitar you don't yet own.

[virob]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

The room plays a role in the sound, but you can always hear what the speakers are doing. don't psych yourself out. If you listen to 3 sets of speakers in a store they are all in the same space and therefore on equal footing. Also...turn them down and move in close - you minimize the effect of the room reflections & standing waves and get a good sense of the sound of the speakers themselves...provided you are familiar with what you're listening to.

A note on room treatment. A little goes a long way - but you need to know what you're fixing before you get into it...and to do that you need decent speakers...not the other way around. You treat the room for the speaker's response in the room. Otherwise you're just throwing money away by trying to fix an issue that you aren't having yet...or worse fixing an issue that doesn't exist on your final choice of monitors.

So to counter what has been said: Monitors first, then room treatment. If you treat the room without your final monitors you will then have to re-treat to account for the monitors. Treating the room first is like buying new strings for a guitar you don't yet own.

Ok, this makes a lot a sense!

Jim1960

I should have been more clear, the room is a decent size, 12 x 24, I share it with my wife’s work area, and there are several options for recording positions. It is my desk space and location in one corner, which limits the physical size of monitors that can be accommodated. I’m now rethinking the whole setup, thanks to everyone’s comments.

[DoryDavis]

I'm no expert, but working by myself (not a room full of band members needing to hear playbacks) headphones make the most sense to me, for both tracking and mixing. That take the room out of it all together in terms of hearing what you are getting.
After I have a mix I think is working, I make an mp3, and then play that alongside a similar professionally recorded song, on my consumer system, that I have been used to for years.
Another option I've used is to take a professionally produced song and have it handy for playback as I am mixing. Even to the point of putting into my DAW timeline as a separate track and keeping it muted until time for comparison.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by virob

Ok, this makes a lot a sense!

Jim1960

I should have been more clear, the room is a decent size, 12 x 24, I share it with my wife’s work area, and there are several options for recording positions. It is my desk space and location in one corner, which limits the physical size of monitors that can be accommodated. I’m now rethinking the whole setup, thanks to everyone’s comments.

Understanding that individual personal logistics situations and issues can factor in. BUT
Take note also in terms of "ideal" positioning for mixing -- symmetrical positioning ( equal distance from side walls) is always preferable to any offset or corner type positioning.

[MikeBmusic]

Sure, you can compare monitors in a store room, but how THAT room sounds affects how those speakers sound. It won't be the same as in your room.
Your best bet is to buy monitors from a place that will give you a 100% refund if you are not happy with them.

With your no-lowered budget, look at the JBL LSR 305 or 308 - wait for a sale, they'll probably be on sale for the Presidents day madness. The only drawback on them is rear-facing port. This can be an issue if you have them near the front wall and it doesn't have any trapping on it (I use 305s with bass traps right behind them). I've read that some people just stuff a sock in the rear port!

As to headphone mixing, even with a good set, the left-right balance/bleed is what can really throw things off. I started mixing with headphones, when all I had were computer speakers. I'd always burn the mixes to a CD, then listen on my truck CD player and home stereo system, and would inevitably have to make several tries at remixing to get things balanced out correctly - and the problem was almost always anything that was centered in the mix (like vocals or a lead guitar part).

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by virob

Ok, this makes a lot a sense!

Jim1960

I should have been more clear, the room is a decent size, 12 x 24, I share it with my wife’s work area, and there are several options for recording positions. It is my desk space and location in one corner, which limits the physical size of monitors that can be accommodated. I’m now rethinking the whole setup, thanks to everyone’s comments.

The corner of a room is the worst place to setup a recording desk and monitors. See if you can setup in the middle the short wall, a few feet out from that wall would be preferred.

Also, Equator Audio may be out of business:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...tor-audio.html

[alohachris]

Aloha Virob,

Great advice from sdelsoray, Mike & Kev here. Pay attention to it, my friend.

DIY, PORTABLE ROOM TREATMENT is your first step - before you buy monitors or any gear - it's that important. It's the only way to control early reflections in your two-space situation, maximize your gear (monitors), & achieve consistency in your recordings, even if you're recording just for fun. R/T saves time, money & frustration -even if it's a hobby.I know-Ha!

Check out the many previous Room Treatment threads we've had here over the years for clues. Also here:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ing-acoustics/

It's easy & hugely cheaper to make DIY Broadband Absorbers to control your space, rather than buying expensive gobos.

Make make 2-9 of the 4"x2'x4' Owens-Corning 703 rigid fiberglass broadband absorbers. They are free-standing & can easily be chained together. Cover in some great looking material. Everything you need (except O-C 703 - at acoustic material suppliers) is available at Walmart.

The best part of these broadband absorbers is that they can be moved between your spaces AND can be stored out of the way when your wife needs the space (you need to remedy that virob - good luck)! She'll love that they can be easily moved.

PM me for details when you're ready to do it. I'm sure that you'll want to make DIY absorbers for both your recording & desk spaces once you see how easy & cheap it is. You start by metering your spaces & printing out a reading of where your room reflections are & then place treatment accordingly.

Here are some great links for how to make DIY broadband Absorbers & R/T in general:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Here's one scenario for you, virob.

In your recording space, in the middle of your 10'x10' tracking room, place two absorbers behind the mic's, two behind you, two to each side & 1-2 above you. OPTION: place them across the corners, floor to ceiling & cover windows, mirrors & reflective surfaces with movers blankets. Wooden floors or a 4'x4' sq. 1/4" plywood panel over carpeting work great. It's sort of a 'room with a room' idea. You can place the panels to add more or less room in your tracks.

As a renter, that is how I've been able to treat many, many different sized, recording & tracking spaces effectively (consistent pro-level results). I store them out of the way when not in use. You need that Room Treatment, virob.

In terms of monitors, having auditioned hundreds of monitors over many decades, once I truly heard & understood monitors at different price points, I'd rather save now for monitors that are minimum in the $1200+/pair range. If your budget is $500-600/per speaker, then you can find some nice choices. Cheaper speakers tend to kick in ear fatigue pretty fast & lack the details I've come to appreciate & need. The Yamaha HSS50's & 80's are like that. Not a bad place to start. But you'll want better soon after, IMO.

Two monitors that I love are the Adams A7X's (which I own - $1200/pr. - great depth, balance & details) & Neumann's KH-120's - $1500/pr. Can't go wrong with those - save up. Try to audition them - not at a store - but at a local studio. It'd be worth it to pay for some time to do a shoot-out.

Too long here as usual.

PM me if you'd like, virob. Good Luck with building your space(s).

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

[virob]

Alohachris,

Thanks for the links.
Making those acoustic panels look dead easy! I already have enough wood in the shop, Roxul Safe&Sound is cheap and easy to get, might be able to get Roxul Rockboard 80, but it will be more expensive, and I can hit the discount fabric store and see what I can find. This should be an inexpensive project. It will have to wait until the weather clears up a bit, since I don't have enough inside space to build these and it is too wet and cold outside.
There is a good chance we might be moving this year. One of my requirements is a dedicated music room for listening/playing/recording, so these will come in real handy when we get to that stage, so I may as well make a bunch.

If you like the Neumann KH 120's you should listen to the 80's. I listened to them again this weekend and this time they were better set up and sounded much better. I was also able to compared them to the 120's. the 120 might have a little deeper bass, but the 80's sounded better to me overall. At several hundred dollars less than a pair of 120's or Lyd5's, I think they are hard to beat for the price.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by virob

....[snip].... Roxul Safe&Sound is cheap and easy to get, might be able to get Roxul Rockboard 80, but it will be more expensive, ..[snip]...

Roxul Safe and Sound is cheaper and easier to find but Roxul Rockboard 80, Roxul Rockboard 60, or Owens-Corning 703 would be a much more appropriate choice. You can go to the Roxul website and find acoustic specifications for their products.

Check out this comparison of various manufacturer info on the ATS Acoustics website:

https://www.atsacoustics.com/page--S...erial--ac.html

The thickness makes a lot of difference at the low frequencies. I used 4" of Roxul Rockboard 80.

[MikeBmusic]

Just to keep new info out there for those looking for small inexpensive monitors...
JBL has come up with new models of the LSR series, so you may be able to find the old LSR305 or LSR308 at a very good discount price.
The new line no longer uses the 'LSR' in its name, and has 5" ($149), 6" ($199) and 8" ($249) models.
Adam has also released a low cost small monitor for $249. Note that that all these monitors, including he Adam, have rear bass ports.