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  #16  
Old 12-18-2020, 10:00 AM
virob virob is offline
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The back bracing is Joel’s standard floating design. I don’t think it is all that common. As far as I know it was originally developed by Jeff Traugott. Stephen Strahm also uses a floating design. I’m sure there are others. Here Joel is also adding carbon fiber as for the top.



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  #17  
Old 12-19-2020, 02:50 PM
virob virob is offline
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Inside view of the back and sides before closing the box. Really clean work, kind of a shame it will ultimately be mostly out of view.IMG_1608410890.778629.jpg801abcc9-9a13-4f98-bba0-0c63923e6044.jpgff3e89fb-58cf-4a82-8937-1656b3f3c2fa.jpg37dc690c-f0d1-4c63-9981-ff915870a608.jpg843fe811-a3f2-4115-be68-3fef0c4f9830.jpg
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  #18  
Old 12-21-2020, 08:18 AM
virob virob is offline
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Time to close the box. The decision, whether or not to bind the edge of the Florentine cutaway? The edge match of the HRW sides is darn near perfect, so visually it doesn't need to be bound per se. Binding or no binding?

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  #19  
Old 12-21-2020, 08:40 AM
Lonzo Lonzo is offline
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Default Sweet memories

... to see you going throuh this process with Joel brings back the anxious anticipation waiting for the next batch of update pics from him... congrats on your build and also on working with Joel. He is such a great and engaging person, let alone a fantastic luthier... enjoy the trip - it is a great one with Joel and good luck - hope you receive yours without to long a wait.

To bind or not to bind ? If in doubt let Joel propose something.. I think I would go for it as I believe it ties the whole thing together better optically... albeit I agree that it looks like the sides grew around that edge.. impeccable workmanship!

Last edited by Lonzo; 12-21-2020 at 09:12 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-21-2020, 09:09 AM
doodahdoug doodahdoug is offline
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Default Michaud OM-R

Great to see your Michaud OM-R well underway Mike. You can't go wrong either way but unless Joel recommends binding the cutaway point, I would leave it off to show the continuation of the wood grain. Look forward to following along.
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  #21  
Old 12-22-2020, 08:43 AM
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Looking schweet!!! I'll agree with Doug, anytime you see that kind of perfect grain match it makes sense to show it off. I wouldn't bind it!
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  #22  
Old 12-22-2020, 09:37 AM
virob virob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandaroo View Post
Thanks for sharing, what an interesting bracing strategy.
Quote:
originally posted by Archaic Guitars
Yeah, very interesting bracing, especially the traverse bar with the bend for the cutaway on the treble side. Cool stuff
Thanks for following along! I think Joel has been using this top bracing layout for a couple years now.
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  #23  
Old 12-22-2020, 09:58 AM
virob virob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonzo View Post
... to see you going throuh this process with Joel brings back the anxious anticipation waiting for the next batch of update pics from him... congrats on your build and also on working with Joel. He is such a great and engaging person, let alone a fantastic luthier... enjoy the trip - it is a great one with Joel and good luck - hope you receive yours without to long a wait.

To bind or not to bind ? If in doubt let Joel propose something.. I think I would go for it as I believe it ties the whole thing together better optically... albeit I agree that it looks like the sides grew around that edge.. impeccable workmanship!
Hi Lonzo, I remember your build with Joel. It was fun to follow along while waiting fir mine to start. There is some inspiration from your build in this one, even though they are very different woods.

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Originally Posted by doodahdoug View Post
Great to see your Michaud OM-R well underway Mike. You can't go wrong either way but unless Joel recommends binding the cutaway point, I would leave it off to show the continuation of the wood grain. Look forward to following along.
Hi Doug, I also remember your build as well. Still playing the Michaud I purchased from you which is what lead to this one.

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Originally Posted by cigarfan View Post
Looking schweet!!! I'll agree with Doug, anytime you see that kind of perfect grain match it makes sense to show it off. I wouldn't bind it!
I’m regretting my decision a little. We decided to go ahead and bind the edge. I totally agree with all of you, it looks fantastic the way it is. Partly, to tie it together with the rest of the guitar and also from a practical point of view, in order to minimize the optics of any future potential damage along this edge (this is my first Florentine cutaway, and that sharp edge just seems vulnerable to me).
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  #24  
Old 12-22-2020, 06:52 PM
pandaroo pandaroo is offline
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Hi virob,

Thanks for sharing again, always an interesting look under the hood. Just curious as to whether Michaud was fine with these pics being shared on the forum? Michaud is a very generous man and he shares his ideas to other luthiers and adopt some from others with permission, nevertheless, he has never posted his bracings in detail on his website. I just recalled some luthiers normally don't expose their proprietary bracing designs in the open like that. For example, Mcknight shares his build pics in his build threads and he posted the most pics in any build thread with great explanations, whilst he talks about his bracings and about adding carbon fibre to the right spots but he never posts his bracing designs out in the open.
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  #25  
Old 12-23-2020, 08:59 AM
virob virob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandaroo View Post
Hi virob,

Thanks for sharing again, always an interesting look under the hood. Just curious as to whether Michaud was fine with these pics being shared on the forum? Michaud is a very generous man and he shares his ideas to other luthiers and adopt some from others with permission, nevertheless, he has never posted his bracings in detail on his website. I just recalled some luthiers normally don't expose their proprietary bracing designs in the open like that. For example, Mcknight shares his build pics in his build threads and he posted the most pics in any build thread with great explanations, whilst he talks about his bracings and about adding carbon fibre to the right spots but he never posts his bracing designs out in the open.
Hi Pandaroo,

You are right, Joel is very generous about sharing his knowledge and ideas. I once jokingly referred to his “trade secrets” in conversation to which he seriously responded that he doesn’t have any. Before starting this thread, I did inform Joel that I was considering doing this and asked for his permission which he gave. In fact, long before we even started this build, Joel asked me if I would be OK if he shared a build profile on this guitar to update his methods, build options and web presence.

It does bring up an interesting question. I suspect that if you asked 10 experienced luthiers to each build a guitar using this bracing pattern the result would be 10 guitars that sound more like guitars they typically build than to this one.
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  #26  
Old 12-23-2020, 09:33 AM
virob virob is offline
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For the binding we will be keeping it simple, Rocklite with maple purfling.

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  #27  
Old 12-23-2020, 09:59 AM
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Honestly, in the flat top guitar luthier community there are very few trade secrets compared to classical guitar or violin luthier communities where builders are more guarded in their sharing of techniques. In general, it is an open and supportive community.

One exception that I do know that Ervin Somogyi used to tell luthiers who attended his “master classes on voicing the guitar” not to reveal the bracing system that he showed them and some builders still honor that request (despite the fact that a number of his apprentices have shown theirs...).

Joel’s top bracing pattern actually reminds me of Florida luthier Simon Fay’s top bracing pattern. His back bracing is also derivative of Jeff Traugott’s floating beam. As you said, guitars are complex systems and subtle differences in design, materials and construction can result in profound differences in how an instrument sounds.

Over time, you see many luthiers evolve their approaches across their time at the bench. Some start out traditional and branch out to other approaches and others are just the opposite; returning to traditional approaches later in their career.


Quote:
Originally Posted by virob View Post
Hi Pandaroo,

You are right, Joel is very generous about sharing his knowledge and ideas. I once jokingly referred to his “trade secrets” in conversation to which he seriously responded that he doesn’t have any. Before starting this thread, I did inform Joel that I was considering doing this and asked for his permission which he gave. In fact, long before we even started this build, Joel asked me if I would be OK if he shared a build profile on this guitar to update his methods, build options and web presence.

It does bring up an interesting question. I suspect that if you asked 10 experienced luthiers to each build a guitar using this bracing pattern the result would be 10 guitars that sound more like guitars they typically build than to this one.
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  #28  
Old 12-23-2020, 10:51 AM
Nemoman Nemoman is offline
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Looking good--love the contrast with the binding!
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  #29  
Old 12-24-2020, 09:09 AM
virob virob is offline
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The neck is mahogany and an elevated, floating design. Joel started offering this as an option about a year ago. Some of his earlier prototypes allowed for quick “on-the-fly" adjustments, but were complicated. The one he is offering is simpler but still possible to tweak the neck as needed, for example when adjusting between winter and summer environments.

It is still more complex compared to a standard bolt-on neck with more angles to deal with.
Neck and heel block


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Hard to do a one piece neck with this design. Slicing the neck.

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Routing out the body

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Pieces glued together and roughly joined to the body.

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  #30  
Old 12-26-2020, 10:42 AM
virob virob is offline
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More work on the neck. For the head plate, the decision was to match the top and go with spruce. Not a typical decision.

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The cut out for the truss rod adjustment

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Head plate glued on. The neck is reinforced with carbon fibre before the truss rod is placed.
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The fretboard glued to the neck is of Rocklite and is a mild multiscale 25.5”-25”. Nut is going to be 1 3/4”

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The neck carve is going to be slightly asymmetric. More of a fuller C shape closer to the treble strings, and a flatter V shape towards the top.

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