Pinless bridge troubles X30

[kramster]

Cool design ....

This has been a fascinating thread. I've not weighed in on the conversation, us sensitive, civilized nylon string players don't have the problems you hard, uncivilized steel-stringers have. No worries here, just supple, warm, seductive sound.

Mr. K;

What! You have a rare Evy nylon strung, electric guitar? WOW! How's it sound? How's it play? How does it amp up?

Pictures and sound wanted!!!

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by EvanB

This has been a fascinating thread. I've not weighed in on the conversation, us sensitive, civilized nylon string players don't have the problems you hard, uncivilized steel-stringers have. No worries here, just supple, warm, seductive sound.

Hmm. I don't think this really has anything to do with nylon vs steel. It's all about bridge pins, or the lack of them.

I think Emerald's pinless design needs a rethink. The current method really doesn't offer a lot of advantages, especially if it doesn't get rid of the spiky bits palm muters object to.

Ovation, or Lowden, for example, have much better execution of this concept - strings threaded through the back edge of the bridge, just like a typical nylon-strung guitar.

Wait a minute. I think I might have just inadvertently agreed with you, Evan.

Time for dinner.

[chistrummer]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

Hmm. I don't think this really has anything to do with nylon vs steel. It's all about bridge pins, or the lack of them.

I think Emerald's pinless design needs a rethink. The current method really doesn't offer a lot of advantages, especially if it doesn't get rid of the spiky bits palm muters object to.

Ovation, or Lowden, for example, have much better execution of this concept - strings threaded through the back edge of the bridge, just like a typical nylon-strung guitar.

Wait a minute. I think I might have just inadvertently agreed with you, Evan.

Time for dinner.

Rethink, redesign, definitely needs some more R&D. Or maybe some bridge pins. ;-)

[tommyld]

Been following this saga. Really impressed with the ingenuity, Byudzai!

Originally Posted by eatswodo

I think Emerald's pinless design needs a rethink. The current method really doesn't offer a lot of advantages, especially if it doesn't get rid of the spiky bits palm muters object to.

Right. If it's not providing ease-of-restringing or total comfort...

I think I understand Emerald's pinless design, and it makes sense in theory (if drilled/machined precisely, with deep-enough slotting and no splintered underside exit holes/slots).
I'm wondering if--when drilling the holes--they need to jack-brace a temporary block underneath to prevent splintering under the bridge...?

(Re: spikeys, even on some pinned bridges--with pins real close to the saddle--I've gotten poked or even had windings contacting the saddle. Not ideal for tone or comfort.)

Originally Posted by eatswodo

Ovation, or Lowden, for example, have much better execution of this concept - strings threaded through the back edge of the bridge

Interestingly...Emerald's nylon/tie bridge accepts ball-end strings no problem. Though, er, the balls are showing. And their tie bridge requires intensive hand-work/carving (and cost).
But FWIW, I custom-ordered an experimental 12-string nylon/steel hybrid, and Emerald's tie bridge withstood ball-ends, even with full 12-string steel tension.

I do agree that the string-trough pinless is a more elegant look...but there are drawbacks. Primarily, it's not a quicker re-string than pins--it's equal or longer. Especially if trying to avoid ball-ends from scratching the finish!

More debatable drawbacks:
• Less break-angle over the saddle. Convention suggests more break angle is better...at least, I think it follows that a string-thru bridge design changes how the string energy is transferred to the top. Whether it's better/worse/indeterminable, I'd expect to hear some difference. It'd be interesting to A/B this with two otherwise identical CF guitars.
• I've always wondered while zipping wound strings along/thru the holes, how long it'll take to sand/wear those holes over time.
• Not a concern with Emeralds, but with glued-on wood bridges, I wonder about putting such directional pull/tension all on the bridge and top, rather the tension being shared between the bridgeplate, bridge, top.

[ac]

From the Build & Repair subforum:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=542166

The downloaded pdf shows a nice idea for a pinless bridge. Patent looooong ago expired. Apparently some builders use this design or similar today.

Might be an option for Emerald.

[byudzai]

Followup on my nylon under-bridge insert for the Emerald pinless bridge:

Awesome after three string changes. No warping of the gizmo at all. It does require careful placement, pushed toward the tail of the guitar as far as the string will allow, to get the ball ends to sit centered. But boy it makes string changing easier, takes all the uncertainty out of where the ends should sit, which I found confusing with the bridge itself. So no slippage, no sharp coil at the end of the string, and no confusion about how to nock the string ends. And about $10 on shapeways.

I am still a little sour about having paid for a bad pinless bridge. I've been sharing this stuff with Kevin and Alistair and so far none of them has said "We're so sorry! How can we make it right?" But maybe my can-do attitude isn't asking for that. No biggie.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by byudzai

I am still a little sour about having paid for a bad pinless bridge. I've been sharing this stuff with Kevin and Alistair and so far none of them has said "We're so sorry! How can we make it right?" But maybe my can-do attitude isn't asking for that. No biggie.

Never mind - answered my own question.

[Melt in the Sun]

Ran across this on google...interesting!
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=366344