How much did installing a LR Baggs Anthem change your acoustic tone.

[gluve95]

I have been all over the place trying to select a pickup for my New Larrivee C03R-TE. I play mainly solo finger style when comes to acoustic. The Anthem sound really good from most videos I've heard. Ease of use plug and play with no belt clip like with K & K Trinity and the lower feed back potential would be very appealing. If I went the K & K route it would only be the Trinity. Don't like it near a much with out mic. But the thought of what an under saddle might do to the tone of my Larrivee does concern me. So question is. Those of you that have installed an Anthem in your guitar that did not have an under saddle already, how much did it effect your tone. Describe how if that's even possible.

[AeroUSA]

Some people say significantly, some people say not at all. I would say a little bit not enough to care about in most guitars.

In all of the guitars I had installed it into I heard a difference but was that down to the new setup being different or was it just in my head?

My suggestion is that if you plan on plugging in a lot then get the full Anthem. It’s one of the best sounds out there in my opinion, I usually plug in even at home since I enjoy using effects and loopers etc. If you plan on plugging in occasionally then get a K&K and Tone Dexter or similar set up.

[southpaw pete]

I'd owned my current acoustic for about a month or so before installing the Anthem SL. For me, it definitely had a small effect on the unplugged sound - mainly in the open sounding high end. But that seemed to recover after a few months for the most part.

But I still consider it SO worth while. I mainly play it plugged in while performing, or leading worship at my church. And having all services only online for the past months (which can really show the flaws in acoustic pickups) - I have been extremely happy with my plugged in sound.

[Peter Z]

That‘s interesting, Pete. Did you experience that the original sound comes back after awhile? Could be, if the soft material gets compressed after a while.

I once put an Anthem SL in a Martin 000-1 but didn’t like it. So, I pulled it out very quickly, before there was a chance to recover.
And now I have a full, factory installed Anthem in my Gibson SJ-200. This guitar sounds wonderful unplugged and plugged (with a bit of EQ).

[southpaw pete]

Yeah, it felt like the tone came back at least 90% after a few months. Like you said, I think its a matter of that soft element pickup getting compressed and settling in.

Good to hear about your Gibson.
Side note: have you tried the Baggs Session with it? I've got the Align series Session, and I find that whatever the comp eq is doing helps so I hardly need any eq. Its subtle, but remarkable.

Originally Posted by Peter Z

That‘s interesting, Pete. Did you experience that the original sound comes back after awhile? Could be, if the soft material gets compressed after a while.

I once put an Anthem SL in a Martin 000-1 but didn’t like it. So, I pulled it out very quickly, before there was a chance to recover.
And now I have a full, factory installed Anthem in my Gibson SJ-200. This guitar sounds wonderful unplugged and plugged (with a bit of EQ).

[89bruin]

Put an Anthem in a Martin 000-15 I’ve had for 20+ years. Couldn’t tell any difference unplugged. Sounds great amplified. In my primary fingerstyle guitars (both Larrivees) I run the Lyric and have been quite happy.

[gluve95]

Originally Posted by 89bruin

Put an Anthem in a Martin 000-15 I’ve had for 20+ years. Couldn’t tell any difference unplugged. Sounds great amplified. In my primary fingerstyle guitars (both Larrivees) I run the Lyric and have been quite happy.

The simple non invasive install of the Lyric would be nice. But none of the videos I've seen sound as full as the Anthem. But I have heard people say with the right floor preamp and EQ'ing it can sound good. What kind of chain are you using with the Lyric. I thought with the Anthem or Lyric going with the Align series pedals might be the way to go. EQ - Session - Reverb - Active DI. Maybe all that could make the Lyric sing.

[Ken Carr]

I have a LR Baggs Lyric mic in one guitar. I was always not quite pleased with the sound until I bought a Tech 21 Q-strip. It is a DI with powerful EQ. It takes a while to figure out the optimal setting for your instrument, but it makes all the difference in the world with the Lyric. It is the most natural plugged in sound I have ever heard. I have another guitar with the K&K mini. I own a Tonedexter and have made some good wavemaps for this guitar with the K&K. The Tonedexter works great. It is a huge improvement with the K&K. Both systems are very good and natural sounding. I have to give a slight edge to the Lyric with the Tech 21 Q-strip to most natural sound. However it is more feedback prone than the K&K.

[jonfields45]

I removed a Baggs Element from one of two nearly identical Parlor guitars a few years ago.

As I tuned up the guitar after the removal I thought WOW what a difference.

When I got it upstairs it still sounded just like the other one.

Expectations and no easy way to do a double-blind A-B test make this something you just have to do for yourself.

Companies like Gibson and McPherson would not ship their guitars with Elements if they thought is was a disadvantage in a showroom bake-off with their competitors.

[gluve95]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I removed a Baggs Element from one of two nearly identical Parlor guitars a few years ago.



As I tuned up the guitar after the removal I thought WOW what a difference.



When I got it upstairs it still sounded just like the other one.



Expectations and no easy way to do a double-blind A-B test make this something you just have to do for yourself.



Companies like Gibson an McPherson would not ship their guitars with Elements if they thought is was a disadvantage in a showroom bake-off with their competitors.

Yes. I believe us humans are really good at convincing our self's of what we already believe to be true. My best guess is that the difference is so little it's something you won't even notice after a couple days with it. Thanks for your hands on experience input.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I removed a Baggs Element from one of two nearly identical Parlor guitars a few years ago.

As I tuned up the guitar after the removal I thought WOW what a difference.

When I got it upstairs it still sounded just like the other one.

Expectations and no easy way to do a double-blind A-B test make this something you just have to do for yourself.

Companies like Gibson and McPherson would not ship their guitars with Elements if they thought is was a disadvantage in a showroom bake-off with their competitors.

I think with regards to Gibson, it has more to do with installing a pickup that’s insanely robust and might rob a bit of tone vs. not installing a pickup at all and having people complain that the guitar can’t be plugged in. Remember too that the Element often shows up on the more affordable Gibson guitars. I don’t think the Element robs as much tone as we all let on it does but, it clearly impacts the tone somewhat. A lot of companies just don’t care that much.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by gluve95

I have been all over the place trying to select a pickup for my New Larrivee C03R-TE. I play mainly solo finger style when comes to acoustic. The Anthem sound really good from most videos I've heard. Ease of use plug and play with no belt clip like with K & K Trinity and the lower feed back potential would be very appealing. If I went the K & K route it would only be the Trinity. Don't like it near a much with out mic. But the thought of what an under saddle might do to the tone of my Larrivee does concern me. So question is. Those of you that have installed an Anthem in your guitar that did not have an under saddle already, how much did it effect your tone. Describe how if that's even possible.

I have installed two Anthems and in both cases, the dampened acoustic tone was noticeable.

The first install was a true 'blind' test as I didn't know Anthem had this reputation. I installed the pickup, strung up and thought, 'whoa! where did the oomph go?' I googled the problem only to find that it is a common issue among some folks.

Having said that, it is entirely possible the tone returned over time and I did not perceive it - I don't trust my ear and brain to say objectively that the tone left and never came back. Also, when I took the anthem out, I don't recall thinking, 'ah, there is that missing oomph.'

Second, the Anthem is a truly outstanding pickup - a fantastic plugged in sound, so even if it does rob a touch of tone unplugged, it may be worth it. Big sound, no hassle, lots of flexibility. Its a brilliant piece of tech.

[jonfields45]

I think if you took all the string tension off a guitar, removed the saddle, replaced the saddle, and strung it up with the same strings, it might still take a while for it to sound like it used to. Or maybe the strings are degraded through that treatment.

When I do exactly this to adjust a saddle I find I still need to tug on the strings to restore tuning stability even though they are old strings.

There are a lot of moving parts and expectations which make a definitive conclusion difficult.

[James May]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

...
Expectations and no easy way to do a double-blind A-B test make this something you just have to do for yourself.

...

Very good point. The best method I've come up with is to record the guitar in my studio with a nice, repeatable mic setup. The room is well treated acoustically. I play something that I can easily play again the same way, in the same position with respect to room and mic.

Then I change one variable, say to the pickup (or whatever). Restring with the same strings.

Then I rerecord the same passage, but try to keep all other variables the same.

Then I listen and compare the two tracks. It's not double blind, I know.

I do a little thing where I close me eyes and toggle the tracks a bunch of times in rapid succession, so that I lose track of which one I'm listening to. A few of those in a row will usually tell me if I'm fooling myself or not.

Or you could get more rigorous and download some ABX software which will make this process more reliable.

This world seems designed to make it easy fool ourselves, and it takes real effort not to.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by James May

Very good point. The best method I've come up with is to record the guitar in my studio with a nice, repeatable mic setup. The room is well treated acoustically. I play something that I can easily play again the same way, in the same position with respect to room and mic.

Then I change one variable, say to the pickup (or whatever). Restring with the same strings.

Then I rerecord the same passage, but try to keep all other variables the same.

Then I listen and compare the two tracks. It's not double blind, I know.

I do a little thing where I close me eyes and toggle the tracks a bunch of times in rapid succession, so that I lose track of which one I'm listening to. A few of those in a row will usually tell me if I'm fooling myself or not.

Or you could get more rigorous and download some ABX software which will make this process more reliable.

This world seems designed to make it easy fool ourselves, and it takes real effort not to.

Sorry, I can't help with the 'rob the tone' thing as I have 2 guitars with the full Anthem, but the first was in the guitar when I bought it and the other I had a new nut and saddle made when the Anthem was installed!

But while Mr May is responding, the reason I wanted the 'full' Anthem is so I can run the pickup a number of ways........the usual way with all undersaddle and TruMic ON to suit...

Or - TruMic OFF and pickup run to Tonedexter files I made!

Both good! And ahem...not one thing the same!


BluesKing777.