Shatten HFN. PUTTY or TAPE?

gluve95 · #1 08-08-2020, 07:49 AM

Going to be installing a Shatten HFN in My Larrivee this weekend. This Larrivee is not heavy on the high frequency end of things. So last thing I want to do is cut the highs. The Shatten instructions say that the putty Lets the highs through more and the tape is more balanced . But a video comparison I listen highs seemed more muted. In fact the over all sound to my ears any way eas more dampend for lack of a better word. For those of you that have use the HFN. What has been your experience. And which do you prefer.

Methos1979 · #2 08-08-2020, 09:42 AM

I tried both and there was definitely a difference between the two. Try the putty first as it's the easiest to move around and get just right. If you don't like the sound then try the tape. I tried the Schatten HFN on two guitars and it just didn't work for me but I love the ease of installation with both the putty and tape.

Make sure to make a bunch of 'dry runs' with positioning to get used to placement. I found that if I leave the high and low E bridge pins in place that gave me a good reference point for my fingers to center the pickup directly over the saddle. Don't worry about being perfect because you can always adjust. I also found that moving the pickup around in different directions did not translate to making all that much difference in tone.

Mbroady · #3 08-08-2020, 10:07 AM

I installed the HFN with tape and found the pick up to be very unbalanced, with a lack of low end. I switched to putty and all was right. It is not a bass heavy pick up but I find it takes a little Low end EQ well, while still sounding neutral. I have it paired with an internal mic and together they sound great for solo singer songwriter type of gigs.

stevecuss · #4 08-08-2020, 10:20 AM

I recommend starting with putty because you can nudge it around for location, but also press it into place to notice any tonal change. I've installed a few HFNs and always used putty and been happy with it. I would switch to tape but haven't needed to yet. But that's the benefit the HFN. Try putty, switch to tape, remove tape from middle leg etc. You can experiment with no mess or fuss.

I think the two biggest challenges are:

1) Grass is greener syndrome. SBTs are notorious for needing good placement which then can play on your brain, believing one more nudge will get sonic nirvana. Do you like the tone? Be at peace and be done. Bass a little shy? Press down harder on the bass side, or nudge the pickup. Still not happy? Try tape.

2) Low output. HFN is probably the lowest outpace pickup I've used. It comes up to stage volumes easily with an external pickup, but it can be off-putting at first.

jonfields45 · #5 08-08-2020, 12:35 PM

I have installed two with tape. My first HFN had a slightly shorter leg and I did not press the tape down firmly enough. The result was poor bass response, but after EQ still good enough to motivate a second install in my other guitar. That one sounded great with no EQ, which with Cuki's insight motivated me to press down harder on each of the three legs in the first guitar. Now both guitars sound great with no EQ. The first guitar is now a year plus since that installation correction and still sounds great.

I contacted Les Schatten and he was a clear that he prefered the 3M VHB tape over putty.

If you install with tape, be sure to press each leg firmly with pressure back from outside the guitar. Putty has got to be more forgiving.

If I was not installing in CF guitars where razor blade removal of a K&K was not possible, I probably would have installed K&Ks instead out of habit and long term experience.

With a simple EQ pedal for signal buffering and a little treble roll off (Boss GE7 or Behringer ADI21/EQ700) I think the HFN is a winner.

With an IR such as ToneDexter (or mine), I again would give the plus to the HFN but the IR has not a lot to correct with an HFN.

Plugged straight into random equipment at an open mic, then the K&K is a better choice if the permanent glue is no issue.

gluve95 · #6 08-08-2020, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I have installed two with tape. My first HFN had a slightly shorter leg and I did not press the tape down firmly enough. The result was poor bass response, but after EQ still good enough to motivate a second install in my other guitar. That one sounded great with no EQ, which with Cuki's insight motivated me to press down harder on each of the three legs in the first guitar. Now both guitars sound great with no EQ. The first guitar is now a year plus since that installation correction and still sounds great.

I contacted Les Schatten and he was a clear that he prefered the 3M VHB tape over putty.

If you install with tape, be sure to press each leg firmly with pressure back from outside the guitar. Putty has got to be more forgiving.

If I was not installing in CF guitars where razor blade removal of a K&K was not possible, I probably would have installed K&Ks instead out of habit and long term experience.

With a simple EQ pedal for signal buffering and a little treble roll off (Boss GE7 or Behringer ADI21/EQ700) I think the HFN is a winner.

With an IR such as ToneDexter (or mine), I again would give the plus to the HFN but the IR has not a lot to correct with an HFN.

Plugged straight into random equipment at an open mic, then the K&K is a better choice if the permanent glue is no issue.

At this point I'm 90 % sure I'll be going though a Boss AD 10. So plenty of EQ ability will be available. Thanks for your detailed response. It does seem sound wise that most prefer the tape. Plus the fact that Shatten seems to think it's the best route.

hiddenmickey · #7 08-08-2020, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gluve95

At this point I'm 90 % sure I'll be going though a Boss AD 10. So plenty of EQ ability will be available. Thanks for your detailed response. It does seem sound wise that most prefer the tape. Plus the fact that Shatten seems to think it's the best route.

I tried both methods and prefer the tape on my Hummingbird. That's probably no surprise considering I play a mellow guitar. The putty was a bit too piercing on the high end for me, but it was still punchy. Try the putty first and see if you like it. It's easy enough to remove and try it again with tape.

gluve95 · #8 08-09-2020, 10:57 AM

So I did the install, went Tape. First two attempts with placement I used high and low E bridge pins to feel where to put it. Didn't look well placed with mirror.Just hated not knowing for sure if it was right. Then I made a Jig out of the clear plastic packaging. Placed it over bridge marked the E pins with black maker. Drew a line following the saddle. Poked a hole where pin go. Push pins backwards through jig. Then use putty to hold pickup on the saddle line of jig. Then just finagled inside guitar till I finally got pin in holes. Worked perfect. Sounds good and balanced. Don't have a dedicated acoustic amp or preamp di right now. But it turns out my Boss GT1000 makes a fairly decent acoustic preamp with the natural amp sim. Even has the acoustic resonance effect like the AD10. Still going to be looking for an acoustic dedicated system though.

jonfields45 · #9 08-09-2020, 02:48 PM

Should have posted these, yet again, earlier in the thread...

Petty1818 · #10 08-09-2020, 07:18 PM

I don’t use the HFN now but when I did, I often found the tape produced the warmest/most balanced tone. The putty seemed to enhance the high end. The downside to the tape is that you have to get the placement right. Sometimes the trade off is that the putty takes a bit more eq but it’s easy to move around so I would often use it.

GuitarLuva · #11 08-11-2020, 09:36 AM

I've used both tape and putty and I conclude that the differences between the two seems more related to the guitar body size. If my memory serves me correctly, the instructions say the putty is better suited to larger bodied guitars like dreadnoughts and the tape is better suited for smaller bodied guitars. My dreadnought guitars sounded better to me with the putty so that's what they have. I tried a putty install in my Sable first and it sounded fine. I switched to tape and liked it better.

As others have already said it's definitely worth it to give both a try as every guitar is different. I find the putty easier to use. Just put it roughly in place and tweak it after with a small mirror. I always make a home made jig for a tape install since every guitar is slightly different and the jig makes the pickup go exactly where it's supposed to.

stevecuss · #12 08-12-2020, 07:18 AM

I installed an HFN in my new Eastman OM last night and for the first time, I reached for the tape first before the putty. Enough folks on here, and Les from Schatten all suggest that tape gives the better balanced response. The Eastman is decently bright unplugged, so I wasn't looking for more highs that apparently can come with a putty install.

Installation was the usual breeze. I always make a cardboard template for each guitar installation and keep it in place with the E bridge pins. I can then reach in and attach the pickup so it is right up to the cardboard which puts it centered right under the saddle. The E pins help guide for north-south balance. Definitely more art than science in my method, but the Schatten doesn't appear to be as sensitive to location as Dazzo or Trance.

Anyway, this was my first tape install. My only concern is if it will happily stay stuck over time. I pressed the pickup pretty hard to get the tape to stick. It seemed solid, but later seemed a bit wobbly, but I may have been messing with it too much. I restuck it, strung it up and tried it.

I test through an Ultrasound DI/pre into an Ultrasound DS3 Acoustic Amp. The pickup straight into the amp doesn't do well.

Sounds great - balanced - a bit heavy on the midrange, but then so is this guitar. Highs are lovely and not too bright, plenty of bass. Some complain of lack of bass on a Schatten, but I've always gotten plenty.

I'll record some IRs using Cuki's open source software and eventually run this through my Line 6 Helix rig for live work.

Another successful install. I'd like to try Dazzos again sometime, but between the price of Schatten and the tape or putty install, its hard to beat Schatten.