5E3 Circuit Amps - for beginners??

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by printer2

Not really sure there is a lot of similarity between the 5R3 and the Club 10, not to say it is not a fine amp. But other than the tube complement they have different circuits, the Club more akin to a Bassman but with a Blackface tonestack.

I thought he'd like the sound.

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

You've got what you need, IMO - the Mustang III. One of the available amp models is the Tweed Deluxe - https://fender-mustang-amps-and-fuse...iki/Amp_Models

According to olefudd, it's pretty close to the real deal, plus you have a master volume, can use headphones, no tubes to replace/bias, have an input jack, have an effects loop, built-in reverb, the opportunity to add other effects in the chain.

I have a Mustang III, and I love it. I have mine default to a cleanish Deluxe Reverb. While FUSE makes it easier, you don't need FUSE to work the III because of its LC display and excellent knobage. Just take any of the 100 presets - even the default one that comes up when you power on, change the amp to the Tweed Deluxe, remove the effects from the preset, and save it back with a new name - Tweed Deluxe - and you're done. Your Mustang III will thereafter power up to Tweed Deluxe, just like you owned the real deal, and we know olefudd says it's close to the real deal. I'd try that before the tube amp scene.

But, if you do go tube, consider that you're playing a single coil pickup, consider that you already like the Tweed Deluxe sound, consider that that sound is a function of 2 6v6 power tubes (not EL84s), and then don't get an EL84 amp.

What to get if you must descend into the rabbit hole for your Deluxe tone? Hmmm, simple controls, cheap, master volume, 2 6v6s making at least 10 watts ( a "must have" for that deep deluxe tone), decent 10" speaker, Hi/Lo inputs, sounds great . . . how about the Laney Cub 10? I love mine. They're a little pricier now at $350 than the $300 I paid a few months ago on sale, but worth a listen (YT below).

I wife-tested my Mustang III (on Deluxe Reverb) vs the Laney Cub 10 (just clean playing) - she couldn't tell them apart, AND preferred the Mustang III a smidge more. Even if you try a tube amp, I'd sure keep that Mustang III, in your place.

Let me second this approach as worth trying. Modeling amps like the Mustang III have lots of options, and every thread about them will invariably descend into side discussions about how confusing options are, how one good sound is what one should really go after and want.

My Mustang III is setup to a Princeton model with my own tweaks done in the Fuse software a few years back (likely they could be done from just the amps knobs/LCD too). I cut my teeth on a Princeton back when they were an inexpensive amp, so that's what I zeroed in on myself. I set it up as the default sound. You turn it on, bang!, it's a 12" speaker Princeton-ish amp with an speaker emulated direct out. Yes, there are 10 zillion other settings I could use in there. I actually setup 3 or 4 other models back when the amp was new to me, and I've used them a few times. But mostly it's my day to day Princeton. It could be your Fender Tweed Deluxe setup as suggested here.

Those troubling other options don't need to be used. Yes, you need to use your ear and taste to setup your "signature model" sound once. I wonder if a lot of people wander around in their amp odyssey because they find that step daunting, using their own ear to setup an amp (not necessarily a modeling amp) to work for them.

Fender's newest "ToneMaster" line seems to be testing the waters for this philosophy off the shelf, by stripping away those multiple amp sound and feel options and giving the customer a "I turn it on and it's a Fender Twin" modeling amp. A Mustang III you have is infinitely cheaper than that (and Fender doesn't offer a Tonemaster Tweed Deluxe anyway).

[Rudy4]

I had a few different 5 watt tube amps, unfortunately too loud for home use if you are trying to push into "good tone" territory.

My last amp was a Peavey Royal 8, a five watter with 8" driver, and most importantly, a separate gain and master volume. Not ideal, at least you could overdrive the preamp stage and still keep the overall volume level down.

My main problem with 5 watt tube amps is the general lack of good reverb. I love a bit of spring and dislike having to add something else to provide it.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Rescon

Hey All, hope everyone is building calluses and staying safe/sane. Here’s my situation: relatively new to electric guitar but have been playin acoustic for 30 yrs. I have a Fender Thinline modern player retrofit with Fahlin P90’s. My amp is a Mustang 3 but I see now that Fender is no longer supporting their Fuse software and honestly, this amp is too much for me. Too many options and I don’t know amps very well so all the choices and pedals are overwhelming. Got some good tones but have always felt overwhelmed.
My jamming buddy plays a Deluxe Reverb silverface and just plugs in and goes. Superior tone and simplicity. I want that in a smallish tubeamp of some kind.
Because I’ve haven’t played or heard too many amps, hard to say what I like but what I hear and love from the Net is deluxe type 5e3 circuit type amps. Having never played one, I’m concerned that many say that they’re very touch sensitive and responsive to a players touch. Yeah, I’m no player with any kind of touch on electric. Half the time I’m playing sharp cause I can’t seem to get that light tough needed to not bend the strings. Lol.
But the tone and simplicity is killer and I’ve watched a ton of videos and that’s what I keep gravitating to.
I understand they are pricey but I just want something for the house and small party’s/gigs that doesn’t get me frustrated every time I play.

Thanks everyone and stay safe!!

Nick

Others have covered it pretty well. So I am just going to add ::: When I got back into electric after some 47 years of have going acoustic only . I spent the better part of 4 months going to every independent and chain guitar shop in a 150 mile radius around Denver (ah yes the good ol' pre corona days ) And being retired I must have played several hundred guitars and amps in that time frame.
Personally I think you should decide on a budget range first and shop from there. Me, I found I preferred the more simple tube amps over SS and y SS modeling amps. Specifically because of the feel of the "touch sensitivity" YMMV

In general:
"Touch Sensitive" has two meanings, one is as you note , the very different physical feel of your hands on the stings compared to acoustic and also that relates to what comes out the speaker. BUT you will get used to that difference with practice, and I was surprised that it seemed fairly quickly like 1 to 2 months .

The other usage of the term "touch sensitive" by electric players, is how the circuitry in the amp reacts to the signal input (and relates to but is a bit different type "touch sensitive" factor than just what you feel on the strings) I am guessing that is most of what you reading/hearing about on the internet, in terms of the 53e type circuit or tubes in general and being more "touch sensitive", I think (in my layman's understanding) has to do with what is called "Sag and Bloom" and considered by tube enthusiasts to be present and felt in tubes amps and not in most if any, SS amps , and honestly IMO it is a positive not a negative even when starting out.

[ghostnote]

Call them opinions or call them advice, but all of the replies you've received have valid information. I won't add to it except to say that the 2 amps I play at home the most are a Fender Princeton Reverb RI and a Fender Eric Clapton Vibro Champ. Very different from each other, but both are great amps. I have many amps, some simple, some complex, but these two have a very complex simplicity, if that makes sense. A well made, low-powered tube amp can be tweaked with just small twists of a knob here and there - on the guitar and/or the amp - to give a surprising range of different tones. And (especially with the Vibro Champ) the longer those tubes cook, the better it starts to sound.

[printer2]

And I don't think any 'touch sensitive' amp is bad for a beginner. The band they are talking about is the transition from clean to dirty. If you are learning it might be better practicing in the cleaner end of the amp's response. I think a clean 5E3 type amp sounds great. And the people who say a Tweed amp (un-scooped midrange) does not sound good with reverb, they are wrong. You just do not need all that much.

On the 5W amps being too loud at volume, I probably should make a 1W tube amp for people. A 6AK5 for power. Mind you it is easier to find pocket 12AU7 output amplifiers.

[paulp1960]

Originally Posted by dhodgeh

Check out the smaller Tweed Champ (5F1) circuit. No where near in your face as the 5E3, but still plenty of volume. Talk about simple, there is only a volume control - all tone is controlled from your guitar.

Cleans up nicely at lower volumes (which is not a trait of the 5E3), but has plenty of crunch (distortion) when you crank it up.

Go to YouTube and listen to Julian Lage on his Tele clone in to a 5F1 to get some feel on what this amp can do.

I've got both (both home brews), and cannot use the 5E3 in the house without an attenuater - it goes from 0 to loud at about 3 on the dial. The 5F1 can still be too loud at times, but does sound great at lower volumes.

D

I think a good 5F1 Champ is a beautiful sounding amp. The touch sensitivity, compression, distortion and tone can all be finely controlled by the player.
They take pedals well and are good for recording.

I've tried cheap modeling amps like the Fender Mustang 1 and Marshall Code 25 and for me they don't cut it. I've used the Fender Fuse software and I've used the Marshall App on my mobile phone. I borrowed a THR10 for a week and couldn't believe the tinny sound in a room with a clean sound. Sounded great through headphones or close miked. The speakers are too small in the THR10 and that's just physics.

I enjoy the tone of my Scuffham S-Gear plugin much more than the SS amps listed above but the price to pay is latency which can be a problem.

I've got no doubt that a high end modeling rig (Helix etc) can sound amazing but I don't want to spend £2K.

I bought a Champ 5F1 kit over a year ago and I'm finally getting enough confidence to be able to start the build, having read enough to understand how the circuit works.

Tube amps contain very high voltages that can kill and when you build a tube amp you have to measure voltages on a live amp so care is required.

Loads of info here on the Fender 5E3 Deluxe amp on this site:

https://robrobinette.com/Amp_Stuff.htm

[printer2]

Was in a discussion of a 5F1 amp, I said that if you are going to go that route to get the 5F2, which is the same amp but with the tone control that the 5E3 has. Makes it a little more versatile as you can boost the treble if you want (as long as the volume control is not maxed). A good 10" speaker also is a step up from the 8".

[paulp1960]

Yes you can add a tone control but it will reduce the gain of the 5F1 circuit as detailed here:

http://www.ampmaker.com/infocentre/thread-104.html

So you can boost the 5F1 gain by using an extra capacitor across the first stage cathode resistor.

I will probably build the amp stock to begin with.

[Marley]

I'm currently building a 5E3 amp kit. When I started a couple of weeks ago, I had zero idea what I was doing or anything about how a tube amp works. two weeks later and I've learned a ton. I'm going slow and can't wait to play it.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Marley

I'm currently building a 5E3 amp kit. When I started a couple of weeks ago, I had zero idea what I was doing or anything about how a tube amp works. two weeks later and I've learned a ton. I'm going slow and can't wait to play it.

Cool
Are you taking photos as you go ? that might make a great build thread

[Marley]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Cool
Are you taking photos as you go ? that might make a great build thread

I am taking a bunch and would totally post em here if it weren't so difficult to post pics on the AGF. I've never understood why there's so many hoops to jump through in 2020 to post pics. (unless something has changed here?)

I'm posting them on the tdpri site. It's simple over there; click add photo, go to photos in phone, pick the pic, click post pic and done. I wish it were that easy here as I would post a ton more photos. I have not gone to photobucket or another place like that in a long time.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Marley

I am taking a bunch and would totally post em here if it weren't so difficult to post pics on the AGF. I've never understood why there's so many hoops to jump through in 2020 to post pics. (unless something has changed here?)

I'm posting them on the tdpri site. It's simple over there; click add photo, go to photos in phone, pick the pic, click post pic and done. I wish it were that easy here as I would post a ton more photos. I have not gone to photobucket or another place like that in a long time.

humm Well Forums have different software Here charter members can post images directly . there are phone apps here https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=474992 that I think you post photos from ( never tried it) Otherwise you have to use a 3 rd party hosting sight.

I gave up on Photobucket several years ago
Have switched to Imgur and have never looked back. I like using a hosting sight because it eliminates all the variables inherent with trying to post directly on different forums with different image posting protocols

Imgur sits in my tabs bar just click click past and done

[Marley]

First off, BEAUTIFUL photo!!! I love it. Yeah I only visit the AGF on my computer so no app for me. I don't use imgur or any of the stuff for photos. I take and save in my phone and I share from my phone only, so no AGF pics for me. I only post to forums where I can directly post from my phone just like tdpri and others. I wish I could post here because I used to post a bunch when I used photobucket but those days are long gone.

But again, I love your photo, your guitar and you amps!