What to do with scales?

[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by daza152

How many scales are there for playing the blues? I know the Em pentatonic and thats it.....sorry if I'm hi-jacking your thread, just seems to be alot of knowledgable people on the subjet here.

Daza.

What are you some sort of instigator? Beacuse there is only room for one of us around here, buck-o! (see who started (and continued) the thread below)

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=182248

There is soooooo much information there . . . there may be too much!

Kaffee: I want the truth!
Col. Jessep: [shouts] You can’t handle the truth!

[rick-slo]

You can always stick with just playing "Joy To The World".

[KevWind]

When I grow up I wanna learn how to play scales

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by usb_chord

Thanks, Doug. This helps to make my objectives a lot more clear. I'm hoping that by understanding scales better, it would aid me in coming up with creative little ornamentations for fingerstyle compositions that actually serve the music as oppose to merely sound "cool".

Hi Brian…
What Doug outlined is what we called 'etudes' in classical music.

I learned basic major and minor scales, and then arpeggios. Following that we had books full of etudes which are repeating patterns which are identical in interval, and begin on sequential notes of the scale (his C-D-E / D-E-F / E-F-G / example.

I’m not speaking here of actual guitar pieces which were named ''Etude in Em'' or such, but of actual practice exercises.

There simple ones that I learned like
1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1
2-3-4-5-6-5-4-3-2
3-4-5-6-7-6-5-4-3
4-5-6-7-8-7-6-5-4
etc. for the full ascending major scale - then reverses in descending order

And there is the familiar major etude which is a single octave exercise played as eighth notes until you reach the final measure which is held for an entire measure.

1-2-3-1 | 2-3-4-2 | 3-4-5-3 | 4-5-6-4 | 5-6-7-5 | 6-7-8-6 | 7-8-9-7 | 8 |
8-7-6-8 | 7-6-5-7 | 6-5-4-6 | 5-4-3-5 | 4-3-2-4 | 3-2-1-3 | 2-1-7-2 | 1 |

And the most basic major exercise involving scales is probably:
1-3-2-4-3-5-4-6-5-7-6-8-7-9-8
8-6-7-5-6-4-5-3-4-2-3-1-2-7-1

Arpeggios, scales and etudes help players to recognize groups of notes in a 'family' group (scale) and help train the fingers and brain to work in sync (without thinking about it). I don't spell words in my head as I speak or type but if you ask me to, I can / s-p-e-l-l / w-o-r-d-s / f-o-r / y-o-u /.

We formulate thoughts and tell stories and hold conversations. Very much like playing music...etudes can help you not only have more fun but put those pesky memorized scales to work for you.

Wow that was more than in intended to share...

[jay7347]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Wow that was more than in intended to share...

But I'm glad you did! ;-) ...making notes.
-jay

[RevGeo]

Find the tab to 'Green River' by Creedence. Listen to a recording of it and learn to play the intro. Excellent use of the E pentatonic scale in the open position.
How about the intros to 'Day Tripper', 'Oh Pretty Woman' and 'Satisfaction'?

These all use what I call the 'E rock scale'. It's based on the pentatonic with other useful notes thrown in. Learning a song that uses the scale you are practicing brings the notes to life.
For C major learn 'Wildwood Flower'. For G major learn 'Amazing Grace'. Even if these songs don't exactly trip your trigger you will still be playing guitar and learning something useful.

Rev George

[jseth]

Try "jumping around" within the scale you've learned (or anywhere) - get used to what the intervals sound like, find out what your ear "likes"... 6th's? maybe 3rd's? 4th's (oooh, that's an interesting one!), 5th's, whatever... begin to gain awareness that these intervals are what makes the music you like... rarely are you going to hear a melody that is a "straight" scale.

I +1 the comment on "singing the notes"... when you get to the point that you can play what you hear inside, then you're on to something sweet!

btw, you can go as deep as you want with scales and theory, lots to learn! And then, you are still faced with "what to play?" That's the kind of stuff that comes from inside of us, IMO...

play on................................................ .>

John Seth Sherman

"There's a land, so I've been told;
all the streets are paved with gold...
and it's just... across... the borderline..."

Ry Cooder/JIm Dickinson/John Hiatt - "Across the Borderline"

[usb_chord]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

About the scales

Can you play the major scale in the key of E, all on the lowest e string?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

Does the following make sense to you?
1 - whole step – 2 - whole step – 3 - half step – 4 - whole step – 5 - whole step – 6 - whole step – 7 - half step – 1

Yes.

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

Do you take lessons?

No.

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

Are you learning to read music (treble/bass clef, key/time signature stuff)?

Yeah, I'm learning at a pretty casual pace. Maybe 15 - 30 minutes a day dedicated to learning sheet music. Now that school is out, I get to bump it up a bit.

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

What are you goals for music/guitar?

I want to be able to play extremely well "by ear" and understand music theory well enough to make arrangements of popular songs. Also, I want to be able to project what's in my head on to the guitar more effectively with less trial and error or blind searching for what I want.

Sometimes I'll find two or three chords that go well together . . often times even a melody to go along on top of it. (ala. typical fingerstyle) Eventually I'll hit a road block because I don't understand enough about music theory to move the composition along. I know what I want to bridge section to sound like (for example) but I dont know how to find exactly the sound I'm looking for.

Also, knowing when is helpful to to use open or alternate tunings for sustaining notes would be great. Ed Gerhard's treatment of Moon River comes to mind. I want to understand music theory well enough to understand how that arrangement came to form and why it works so well.

[Allman_Fan]

Do you know which notes (use numbers 1- 7) in the major scale that make up the:
I chord (some call this the "tonic")?
IV chord ("subdominant")?
V chord ("dominant")?
vi chord ("relative minor")?

[BigRed51]

Originally Posted by usb_chord

It's frustrating to memorize a scale and then pretty much forget about it, because you don't really understand how to use it.

First, I will confess that I am a simple person, and have no knowledge of music theory. When I decided to start transitioning from finger style to flat picking a few years ago, I kept my guitar handy every time I watched TV, and started learning how to play scales.

In my simple brain, I see scales as a means to get from point A to point B. Seldom do you take the complete trip, and seldom do I take the direct route ... rather run up and down the notes to fill in between where the sound is now, and where it needs to go. The vast majority of what I play is improvisational, and I doubt if I have ever played the same thing the same twice, and scales are a huge part of improvising, and a release from just strumming.

Here is a very poor quality recording of some improvising. I agreed to do a very short notice show. We had a mandolin player, two ladies singing, and myself. We recorded these "snippets" which were our second (and final) time through the songs. I think you will be able to hear the use of partial scales with both the guitar and mandolin, especially in the last two segments (starting at about the 1:00 mark). The instruments were pretty mindless, as we were focusing mainly on harmonies ... certainly not professional, but I hope it will give you a starting point for using the scales you have learned.

Practice Snippets

Hope this helps!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by usb_chord

Yes.
Also, knowing when is helpful to to use open or alternate tunings for sustaining notes would be great. Ed Gerhard's treatment of Moon River comes to mind. I want to understand music theory well enough to understand how that arrangement came to form and why it works so well.

I'm not sure there's any theory to either of these, that's more the art part. If you like the sustaining sound of alternate tunings, and think it would work on a tune, go for it. Ed's arrangement of Moon River is cool mostly because of his tone and especially his sense of phrasing, space, and musicality. I think the best way to get that is by learning tunes (like that one), and trying to reproduce his touch as much as you can. Record yourself and listen. How close are you? What needs to change to match what you want to hear?

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by usb_chord

I want to be able to play extremely well "by ear" and understand music theory well enough to make arrangements of popular songs. Also, I want to be able to project what's in my head on to the guitar more effectively with less trial and error or blind searching for what I want.

Sometimes I'll find two or three chords that go well together . . often times even a melody to go along on top of it. (ala. typical fingerstyle) Eventually I'll hit a road block because I don't understand enough about music theory to move the composition along. I know what I want to bridge section to sound like (for example) but I dont know how to find exactly the sound I'm looking for.

Also, knowing when is helpful to to use open or alternate tunings for sustaining notes would be great. Ed Gerhard's treatment of Moon River comes to mind. I want to understand music theory well enough to understand how that arrangement came to form and why it works so well.

I mentioned in another thread the three-DVD set published by Acoustic Music Resource and featuring Laurence Juber. The first volume is called, rather vaguely, "Acoustic Guitar Essentials". It covers in a fairly quick and brief fashion your basic scales degrees, intervals, harmonizing the major and minor scales, the circle of fifths and a few other topics. He is not a slow and careful explainer and it would be best if you have been exposed to the basic ideas of major triads and seventh chords and also you'll need a bit of facility with your left hand to play along with his examples.

The second volume is "Understanding DADGAD" and IMO it is aimed directly bullseye at the desire you expressed in the quote above. He shows how to put together simple arrangements of several tunes, taking advantage of what DADGAD tuning offers in terms of voicing and fingerings. Once again, he does not spoon feed it step by step with repetition and so forth (like a truly expert teacher would do in a classroom setting) but clearly explains all the necessary concepts.

In all of these DVD's most people without music-theory background will want to replay each section a couple times to make sure you really understand what he's saying.

The third volume I have not previewed yet but it is titled "Composing and Arranging for Solo Guitar". I believe it will be oriented more toward him breaking down several of his own compositions and outlining why he made the choices he did in arranging them. You will probably need to have his previously covered material down cold before getting maximum understanding from the final DVD.

Shop around with alternative sellers on Amazon and you can pick up all three for maybe $75-$80 or so. Quite pricey but I think almost everything you're asking for is there. Plus it's Laurence Juber so it is all demonstrated with some wonderful playing...and a delightful English accent to boot! I give a qualified but enthusiastic recommendation, it could be clearer in some places early on but is teaches "Music Theory" in a way that is extremely, directly applied to its usage by a solo guitarist.