Slope Dreads: Interesting Article in Premier Guitar Mag

[Charmed Life Picks]

Howdy, All.

This popped up in my newsfeed today. Timely article.

https://www.premierguitar.com/articl...nought-revival

[zmf]

Timely indeed. Going back to a recent debate about dreadnaughts and jumbos, does this article have the final word on the best description of the J-45?

[merlin666]

Interesting. I grew up in the 70s musically and had no awareness of this shape at all. Then when I started playing again in the 2010s and people were talking about "slope shoulders" and I checked out some pictures I just thought they were hideous looking abominations. But now I'm at a point where I think I should maybe play one on one of these days.

[donlyn]

Originally Posted by zmf

Timely indeed. Going back to a recent debate about dreadnaughts and jumbos, does this article have the final word on the best description of the J-45?

No way.

The first 'Jumbo' was the Gibson SJ-200, also known and marketed as a J-200. As long as guitar makers and marketers continue to suborn the meaning of "jumbo" from 'large' to one involving a somewhat specific shape, usually involving an oversized lower bout, there will always be a debate about this. Sometimes jumbo has been tacked onto another entirely different shape.

And "dreadnought" derives it's name from a revolutionary class of battleship, 'HMS Dreadnought', 1906. It was the eighth ship to bear that name. All battleships since have been called 'dreadnoughts', and the word has also become synonymous with 'large'.

So, we have dreadnought juniors and jumbo juniors, small, medium and semi-large size jumboes, some with the name attached without the size or shape, et cetera.

Edit> Personally I like the term 'round shouldered' as the best and most descriptive of the guitar design in question.

So 'no'.

Don
.

[Tnfiddler]

Are we gonna do this again???? I have a Bourgeois Slope Shoulder Dreadnought and a Martin Dreadnought. That’s what Dana calls his guitars and that’s what I’m going to call it too.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

Are we gonna do this again???? I have a Bourgeois Slope Shoulder Dreadnought and a Martin Dreadnought. That’s what Dana calls his guitars and that’s what I’m going to call it too.

Yeah, I think so.

When this came up about a month ago in a similar thread, I spent an afternoon online looking at most of the major acoustic guitar manufacturers in the industry -- not all, but the brands most talked about on AGF. With the exception of Collings, as I recall, the following makers on their websites without exception ALL referred to them "slope-shouldered dreadnoughts" or "round-shouldered dreadnoughts," or some direct derivation of those terms. Here's a list of those manufacturers:

Eastman
Blueridge
Larivee
Yairi
Alvarez
Santa Cruz
Borgeous (sp?)
Martin
Taylor

It appears Gibson refers to them sort of interchangeably as either "slope-shoulder models" or "round-shoulder models," but does not add the dreadnought name to them, which makes sense to me.

Correct if I'm wrong, folks, but it appears Yamaha has never made slope models but stayed with the standard square-shouldered Martin shape.

I'm sure I'm leaving out a few brands. Feel free to do your own research.

I believe the purists are correct in calling them jumbos, or round-shouldered jumbos, or something. However, interestingly, Epiphone, a wholely-owned subsidiary of Gibson, calls them round shoulder dreadnoughts, and in terms of quantities they probably make 10-20 times the number of slope guitars that their parent does.
http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Aco...5-AJ-45ME.aspx

In all things, I champion function over form. My slope models FUNCTION in my playing life as dreadnoughts. That is, I use them as a direct replacement or alternative to my square shoulder Martins, Yairis, Blueridges, Eastmans, etc. You could call them a purple fire truck if you wanted. To me, they will always be dreadnoughts.

One last note of interest. In the pick world the entire planet refers to the Fender 351 shape as a "teardrop." However, that is not correct. Technically, the "teardrop" is the Fender 358 shape, pictured below. But you'll have a hard time convincing anyone of that. So I call them teardrops. So does everyone else.






Scott Memmer

[WordMan]

Interesting article. Long live the Fundamental Thump!!

Makes me glad I got my ‘46 J-45 when I did

[NotALuth]

Originally Posted by donlyn

No way.

The first 'Jumbo' was the Gibson SJ-200, also known and marketed as a J-200.

.

Have to disagree. The first ‘Jumbo’ was called Jumbo and was introduced by Gibson in 1934. It was slope-/round-shouldered and was replaced by the Advanced Jumbo in 1936. The SJ-200 wasn’t produced until 1937 and was called a Super Jumbo i.e. larger than a Jumbo. Gibson dropped the ‘S’ later and confusingly ended up with two Jumbo ranges with different body styles!

C.F.Martin muddied the waters further decades later with their J body style.

Regards,
Clive.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by zmf

Timely indeed. Going back to a recent debate about dreadnaughts and jumbos, does this article have the final word on the best description of the J-45?

See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnought_(guitar_type)

It's all quite simple; D is the fourth letter of the alphabet, and in this case, it stands for Dreadnought, a Martin Design.

J is the 10th and in this case stands for Jumbo -a large bodied mostly short scale guitar introduced by Gibson in 1934 to compete with the Martin Dreadnought.

I understand that various website designers and marketeers have confused these two designs, hence the confusion, probably.

However, if one is determined to refer to one as another, that's fine.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by donlyn

No way.

The first 'Jumbo' was the Gibson SJ-200, also known and marketed as a J-200. As long as guitar makers and marketers continue to suborn the meaning of "jumbo" from 'large' to one involving a somewhat specific shape, usually involving an oversized lower bout, there will always be a debate about this. Sometimes jumbo has been tacked onto another entirely different shape.

And "dreadnought" derives it's name from a revolutionary class of battleship, 'HMS Dreadnought', 1906. It was the eighth ship to bear that name. All battleships since have been called 'dreadnoughts', and the word has also become synonymous with 'large'.

So, we have dreadnought juniors and jumbo juniors, small, medium and semi-large size jumboes, some with the name attached without the size or shape, et cetera.

Edit> Personally I like the term 'round shouldered' as the best and most descriptive of the guitar design in question.

So 'no'.

Don
.

Hi Don,
The first "jumbo"was the 1934 Jumbo - a precursor to the J35 (35-42) thence the AJ (35-46) thence the J55 (39-42)

The first SJ (super jumbo) was the SJ200 (38-ongong) and the SJ100 (39-42)

Gibson attempted to emulate the Martin shape with the Hummingbird (1960 - ongoing) and the Dove (62-ongoing) but both had short scale necks. (oh and the FJN.

Source - http://guitarhq.com/gibson.html


Hope that helps.

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnought_(guitar_type)

It's all quite simple; D is the fourth letter of the alphabet, and in this case, it stands for Dreadnought, a Martin Design.

J is the 10th and in this case stands for Jumbo -a large bodied mostly short scale guitar introduced by Gibson in 1934 to compete with the Martin Dreadnought.

I understand that various website designers and marketeers have confused these two designs, hence the confusion, probably.

However, if one is determined to refer to one as another, that's fine.

Is Dana Bourgeois wrong since he chose to call his Slope shoulder models a Slope shoulder Dreadnought?

[TBman]

Marketing.

A tune played on a slope shoulder

Tune played on a GA/Jumbo

Tune played on an OM

I think we're the only ones that care about the size/shape of a guitar. Once its recorded or plugged in, it makes no difference to the audience.

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

Is Dana Bourgeois wrong since he chose to call his Slope shoulder models a Slope shoulder Dreadnought?

He made them, he can call them anything he wants. It doesn't always make it correct, just like Silly Moustache showed us with the teardrop picks. Great guitar builder, not infallible.

[NotALuth]

As UncleJesse states (and in spite of what Silly Moustache and I have written above) Dana can call them what he likes, and to be fair Gibson seems confused these days!

From Gibson’s current website:

“The J-45 is Gibson's best-selling acoustic of all time. Nicknamed "The Workhorse" and first introduced in 1942, this iconic acoustic has become the cornerstone of its round-shoulder, dreadnought line.”

Immediately underneath in the specification it states:

“Body Style - Jumbo”

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by TBman

Marketing.

A tune played on a slope shoulder

Tune played on a GA/Jumbo

Tune played on an OM

I think we're the only ones that care about the size/shape of a guitar. Once its recorded or plugged in, it makes no difference to the audience.

Really GREAT songs and playing!!