i found out why i stink

[harpspitfire]

i went to a funeral service today, the lady that passed liked country music, so they had a female guitar player there singing a few farewell songs- all she did was play simple strum cowboy chords, but she had a voice made for TV- geez, so as much as i try to be a better guitar player, being i sing off key like a sick cow in labor, im in a no win situation

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by harpspitfire

i went to a funeral service today, the lady that passed liked country music, so they had a female guitar player there singing a few farewell songs- all she did was play simple strum cowboy chords, but she had a voice made for TV- geez, so as much as i try to be a better guitar player, being i sing off key like a sick cow in labor, im in a no win situation

Yeah, you're better-off being a plain jane or lame guitar player with the voice of an angel, than being a dazzling guitar player with the voice of a teenager going through the hormonal change. People generally care FAR more about vocals than instruments. Which is why in just about every band out there, the band is always the "backup band" for the lead singer (to the audience)… even if that's not really the case. The average person doesn't know who Neil Schon is, but they know who Steve Perry is. Jeff Beck is one of the trend buckers on that, but then again, the average person doesn't have a clue who Jeff Beck is.

I've spent 35 years honing my guitar chops. I sang a handful of tunes in bands, but it was always just an afterthought and I rarely ever worked-on my vocals, short of just singing along with the radio here and there. But this year I've been playing with an acoustic trio and have finally got the fire to work on my voice. At 51 I'm over the hump in terms of being able to turn my voice into one like Pavorotti's. But I've got a solid voice that people like when I'm in my sweet spot pitch-wise, so I've finally decided to at least devote a higher percentage of my time to singing while playing, instead of just playing. My goal for years has been to do a solo playing/singing act (my solo act in the past has been purely instrumental). I want to do the tunes that I want to do, that suit my voice. When you're in a group it's like a marriage, so you have to come to a consensus. Anyways... yeah, I would have been better served to have spent a bit more time actually WORKING on my vocals in the past, versus just showing up to the gig and singing material that I hadn't sung since the last gig. I actually did sing a handful of songs at our gig last week (Floyd's "Wish You Were Here", ELP's "Lucky Man" and a couple others) that I've never sung for ANYONE... even my bandmates. So it felt good to get over that hump of feeling like I was actually putting my dream of doing a vocal/guitar solo act into play. Since I was playing a 12-string, I could have easily done those tunes solo and pulled it off. So it was the first step in achieving my goal. Good to know I can get off my butt at 51 and learn a new trick! I was pretty sweaty after singing the first tune though. I guess that explains why a great voice and stage presence by the lead vocalist is so enshrined in the entertainment biz. Though I'm a life long lead guitarist, I've always known that the lead singer is the one who's REALLY laying everything out there on the line. I could do my guitar thing no matter how sick I was. But it's very hard to do that as a vocalist, not to mention just how soul-baring singing with one's personal voice really is. Guitar players will judge guitar players, but EVERYONE is judging the singer.

[vindibona1]

A great voice- you either got it or you don't. You can make an average voice tolerable with the presentation but you can never take a bad voice and make it much of anything. It's all in the piping. At least with guitar, you don't have to be born with the gift. With guitar practice, perseverance and the right direction can get you far.

[lowrider]

Here's the post that I just finished typing in the other ''I can't sing'' thread;


''For those of you who say that you can't sing; GO TAKE SOME LESSONS!

Really, when you first picked up the guitar, you couldn't play it. It took a lot of practice and for some, a lot of lessons. For others, lessons over the internet. You learned to play, you can learn to sing.

The biggest obstacle to singing is confidence and the best way to get confidence is to start to know what you are doing.

Except for 2 college semesters, I never sang a note in my life. As a kid, we didn't even have a radio in our house. And just like everyone else here, I don't have a naturally ''good voice''. But who does? How many popular singers do have that great voice?

Elvis, Bono, Freddie Mercury, Adell?

For every one of them I can give you five Neil Youngs, Dylans, Levons, Bruces, Southside Johnnys, Lyle Lovetts, John Hyatts, Towns Van Zandts, ROBERT EARL KEENE's

They have average to not even average voices, but they know how to sing.

Just like you had to learn to play, you have to learn how to sing.

Here's a secret that my voice teacher told me, and she's a great electric, rock lead guitar player and lead singer, she said ''Nobody cares what you play while you are singing, they listen to you sing'' Don't try to play the crap out of the guitar. Just keep the rhythm. Work on singing and strumming, play an intro, play something in the break, play something to close but keep it simple.

Find a voice coach. If she's young and good looking, and an up and coming rock star, you'll have a good time and you'll learn to sing.''


I still have my same old voice. It's still nothing special. And my playing is nothing special either. But I'm now on key and in time. If you have both of those, you've got most of the battle won.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

A great voice- you either got it or you don't. You can make an average voice tolerable with the presentation but you can never take a bad voice and make it much of anything. It's all in the piping. At least with guitar, you don't have to be born with the gift. With guitar practice, perseverance and the right direction can get you far.

I disagree on both counts. I was born with an ok voice but I have worked very hard on every aspect of my vocals. In the last two years I have improved to a place where I can sing very well IMHO. I have versality, much better range range and I can sing with emotion. From the compliments, I would say my voice is more than "tolerable."
As far as the guitar goes, its no different than singing. A person born with little guitar playing abilities will never "get far". They may improve but I'm not sure what you mean by "get far". They will be tolerable.

As far as the OP goes, really good guitar players are a dime a dozen and nobody cares these days. People like good singing and good songs.

[jschmitz54]

For me it’s reversed. I was always a decent singer and took up guitar about a year ago with visions of singing and playing in my head. For a year at the acoustic guitar I think I’m coming along ok but at 64 years old my voice is not what it once was. My range, dynamics and clarity are all succumbing to the ravages of age.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by jschmitz54

For me it’s reversed. I was always a decent singer and took up guitar about a year ago with visions of singing and playing in my head. For a year at the acoustic guitar I think I’m coming along ok but at 64 years old my voice is not what it once was. My range, dynamics and clarity are all succumbing to the ravages of age.

Don't give up. I'm 69 and I sing better now than I ever did. You just have to keep working at it.

[jschmitz54]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Don't give up. I'm 69 and I sing better now than I ever did. You just have to keep working at it.

I’ve sang less since I started playing because initially I found it very difficult to play and sing at the same time. Perhaps I’m out of practice to some extent.
Thanks for the encouragement.

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by jschmitz54

I’ve sang less since I started playing because initially I found it very difficult to play and sing at the same time. Perhaps I’m out of practice to some extent.
Thanks for the encouragement.

Here's the secret... guitar players, bass players, and drummers who sing all have to do it... you work on your instrument part until it's automatic and just "in your fingers", and then you work up your vocals over it. Geddy Lee from Rush did it (if that's not an endorsement, I dunno what is), and many others have done it. You do it until you can do it without thinking about it. I've done it and the vocals just flow over the top. Muscle memory..

[vintage40s]

Originally Posted by jschmitz54

... I found it very difficult to play and sing at the same time...

I find playing helps the singing, and it's very hard to sing without playing.

[Beakybird]

I found the Superior Singing Method online course, and it's doing WONDERS for me.
As a performer in Chicago for the last 22 years, I spend more time driving than I do playing. What an aggravation! Now I spend much of the time doing vocal exercises, singing, and vocalizing. Vocalizing might mean speaking like a cartoon or movie character and going from chest to head voice. I'm hitting those high notes more and more naturally each week and getting compliments.
I did try Singing Success years ago, and even though I think it's just as good, for some reason, I wasn't able to apply the exercises to my singing.
When I think of all the countless hours I've spent stuck behind the wheel listening to the news and imagine what a virtuoso I'd be if I had been practicing my voice all of these years... Of course, I'd practice the guitar while driving, but there is that safety thing.

[Rosewood99]

That's why fingerstyle was invented.

[TBman]

The voice is a totally separate instrument which can be accompanied by other instruments.

Muggles confuse one skill with another often.

[Misifus]

I’ve been a singer all my life. I originally took up guitar during the great folk scare because at that time, if you didn’t play an instrument, you really couldn’t perform. So, I’ve playing since 1964. I play primarily fingerstyle, and it’s not a cure all. A while back I went to audition for a gig at a theatre. They asked me to get up on stage, so I played a fingerstyle piece I had just arranged. The guy was puzzled. He said, “So, that’s your warm up piece?” Then I played and sang and all was well. I got the gig, but simply playing some fingerstyle didn’t get it.

Raf

[harpspitfire]

i think ill start by turning my keyboard on, try matching the notes and see what range i have, in my case starting from the basics might be better for me