Help with syncopation and fingerpicking.

[Tuff Gong]

I'm making quite good progress with fingerpicking but only where I'm playing 'on the beat.' As soon as I come across something more complex my thumb loses the beat and the whole thing unravels. I'm just wondering if anyone has any simple exercises that would help me get past this problem? I'm trying to play country blues and I'm not finding it easy at all. Thanks

[stanron]

It might help if you can post a link to the tab you are learning. Sometimes syncopation is found in the notes picked by your fingers whilst the thumb picks solidly on the beat. If the thumb is syncopated and picking before the beat, then it all becomes a bit trickier.

[Bern]

Try to play some stuff in different time signatures other than 4/4.

[jwing]

Assuming that your thumb is playing on the beat and your fingers are playing on and between the beats:

1) Tap a foot to the beat. Your thumb hits a string everytime your foot hits the floor. I don't know why it works, but it does allow your brain to forget about your thumb and concentrate on your fingers.

2) Use a metronome. The simplest setting would be a click for every foot tap. However, syncopation is not arhythmic, so a more complex metronome setting will help you get the groove. I use an iPhone app called TempoAdvance, but my old Sabine MT9000 is good, too.

3) It's important to know where you are within a measure. I like to use my metronome's visual cue for that. For example, it flashes red on beat one and green on the other beats.

4) If you are working off TAB, try to find TAB that is formatted such that the measures are all the same length on the page, regardless of how many notes the measure has.

5) I use a pencil to draw a vertical line through the TAB at each beat. This gives me a better sense of timing for the between-beat notes.

[Kerbie]

You've already gotten some excellent suggestions. The only thing I might add is that slowing the part down helps me. I'd break it down one measure at a time, slow it down and play it as deliberately as is necessary for me to play it correctly. Then I slowly pick up the tempo. I imagine it will just take a little bit of repetition and it'll begin to come. Keep plugging!

[000-18GE]

Originally Posted by kerbie

You've already gotten some excellent suggestions. The only thing I might add is that slowing the part down helps me. I'd break it down one measure at a time, slow it down and play it as deliberately as is necessary for me to play it correctly. Then I slowly pick up the tempo. I imagine it will just take a little bit of repetition and it'll begin to come. Keep plugging!

I second this. Play the few measures you're working on extremely slowly but correctly over and over...but not for more than 15 minutes at a time. Eventually the muscle memory will kick in and you wont have to think about it anymore. It took me about 2 weeks if I recall. i know it feels impossible at first but for me, and many others I've talked to, it's like a light switch being thrown on one day. After that, you'll be amazed at how easily new material is learned while playing alternating bass with the thumb.

[srick]

I just came across an interesting suggestion from Jorma Kaukonen (its in a youtube video). He admits to driving people crazy because he's always drumming his fingers to practice patterns. He says with this technique you can practice anywhere, anytime!

[rick-slo]

Syncopation is accenting off beat.
Practice the simplest pattern until you have that.

For example

--------------------------
--------------------------
-------2-------2-------2-
----2-------2-------2----
-0-------0-------0-------
--------------------------
Count giving the open note the count of two
and the fretted notes the count of one. Accent the upper note each time

[Tuff Gong]

I'm trying to learn the opening bars of StackO'Lee by Mississippi John Hurt (Stefan Grossman's book). I'd post the TAB on here but I'm not sure how you guys do that as when I try and paste it in it doesn't format correctly. Lots of sites have got the TAB I'm using though. Thanks for all your help.

[frankhond]

You need to play that measure(s), max two at a time, over and over, but very slowly. Almost so slow it's not music anymore, think it more that each beat is a slice of time, sometimes thumb is playing, sometimes not. Don't speed up until you have those two measures perfect. When they are perfect, do the next two. Then connect them, which could mean that now you have to do the two "in the middle".

In the beginning this is the only way even if it's frustrating to go so slow. Make a kind of meditation of it, savior each note.

There will come a time when this will be all natural at high speed, just stay slow. Then play slower still.

[frankhond]

You need to play that measure(s), max two at a time, over and over, but very slowly. Almost so slow it's not music anymore, think it more that each beat is a slice of time, sometimes thumb is playing, sometimes not. Don't speed up until you have those two measures perfect. When they are perfect, do the next two. Then connect them, which could mean that now you have to do the two "in the middle".

In the beginning this is the only way even if it's frustrating to go so slow. Make a kind of meditation of it, savior each note.

There will come a time when this will be all natural at high speed, just stay slow. Then play slower still.

I learnt my first Leo Kottke composition this way, it took a year. But from then on, everything was much easier.

[blue]

Well, with the folks I mentor when this comes up it usually has to do with not tapping a foot through a song. Always tap a foot anytime you are playing anything even scales. Tap a foot every time the radio or a cd is on. Count triplets and 16th notes in your head while waiting for the bus or your order at a restaurant while tapping your foot!

While watching TV tap and count triplets and 16th notes in your head while accenting one of them randomly by tapping a beat with your hand. one and AH two ee AND ah THREE and ah four AND ah.

Over time, every beat in a triplet or sixteenth note grouping of four will be an individual beat in your head, and most importantly in your muscle memory, you can access at any time. When you don't have to consciously find the beat you want to hit anymore, it's a piece of cake for that thumb to find it. Right now you're having to find the beat, anticipate it, and trigger your thumb hoping you get it right. It will eventually become just triggering your thumb because your foot will always be going and where the various beats are will be a part of you. It's about playing music as opposed to playing that one song.

And I have no clue if it's spelled taping or tapping... I went with tapping and tried to keep it consistent...

P.S. Tap your foot...

[stanron]

Originally Posted by Tuff Gong

I'm trying to learn the opening bars of StackO'Lee by Mississippi John Hurt (Stefan Grossman's book). I'd post the TAB on here but I'm not sure how you guys do that as when I try and paste it in it doesn't format correctly. Lots of sites have got the TAB I'm using though. Thanks for all your help.

This is the first one that came up

[ Tab from: http://www.guitaretab.com/m/mississi...rt/125744.html ]



e|-0-h2-----------0-h2-----|-0-h2--------------------|----0-h2--------0-------|
B|----------3-----------3--|----------3--------------|----------3----------3--|
G|-------------------------|-------------------------|------------------------|
D|-------0-----------0-----|-------0-----------0-----|-------0-----------0----|
A|-0-----------0-----------|-0-----------0-----------|-0-----------0----------|
E|-------------------------|-------------------------|------------------------|


e|-2--------------2--------|-0--------------0--------|-0----------------------|
B|----------3-----------0--|----------3-----------3--|----------0-------------|
G|-------------------------|-------------------------|------------------------|
D|-------0-----------0-----|-------------------0-----|-------0-----------0----|
A|-0-----------0-----------|-------2-----------------|------------------------|
E|-------------------------|-3-----------3-----------|-3-----------3----------|



e|----------------0--------|-2--------------0--------|------------------------|
B|---0------3-----------3--|----------3--------------|-1-S2-----5-------------|
G|-------------------------|-------------------------|------------------------|
D|-------0-----------0-----|-------0-----------0-----|-------2-----------2----|
A|-------------------------|-0-----------0-----------|-0-----------0----------|
E|-3-----------3-----------|-------------------------|------------------------|


e|-------5--------3-----1--|-1-S2--------------------|
B|----------2--------------|----------3--------------|
G|-------------------------|-------------------------|
D|-------2-----------2-----|-------0-----------0-----|
A|-0-----------0-----------|-0-----------0-----------|
E|-------------------------|-------------------------|



Lots of good advice above. The link with foot tapping is very good. Pick the bass notes with the thumb as your foot taps down. If a finger picks at the same time you use a kind of pinching movement. Notes picked between the bass notes are picked as the foot gets to the top. As long as your foot tapping is in time this will work. At first you have to start slow. Very slow. Perfect timing but slow, and yes one or two bars at a time until it becomes automatic. Then you can start to speed up. Good luck.

Incidentally if you use Courier New font a lot of the spacing issues sort themselves out.

[Andy C]

And I have no clue if it's spelled taping or tapping

Tapping. Taping, I've been told, is killing music, which is not what we want to be doing here

[lovetheclassics]

Originally Posted by frankhond

You need to play that measure(s), max two at a time, over and over, but very slowly. Almost so slow it's not music anymore, think it more that each beat is a slice of time, sometimes thumb is playing, sometimes not. Don't speed up until you have those two measures perfect. When they are perfect, do the next two. Then connect them, which could mean that now you have to do the two "in the middle".

In the beginning this is the only way even if it's frustrating to go so slow. Make a kind of meditation of it, savior each note.

There will come a time when this will be all natural at high speed, just stay slow. Then play slower still.

I learnt my first Leo Kottke composition this way, it took a year. But from then on, everything was much easier.