Mixing solo fingerstyle guitar (part 2)

[paulchevin]

Originally Posted by DarkestDreaming

Paul,
you effectively solved the problem for me by balancing it back center and still maintaining my pickup/mic balance. Can you please share how you did it? Did you send some of the left channel to the right?

Also, I'm aware of phase implications with pickup and mic combos but I didn't seem to be able to hear significant phasing, which is why i didnt phase adjust it. Also, i was under the impression that if both signals dont feed into each others speakers (I'm panned 100% L and R for both sources) there wouldn't be phase. Am i right?

I simply split the stereo track into two mono tracks and slightly adjusted the timing on the left track relative to the right until it sounded "right" to my ears. You can also get plugins that do a similar thing (eg. "Phasebug", which is a free VST plugin). I also didn't pan the tracks fully 100% left and right.

Of course, Doug is also correct. It isn't simply a phase difference in this case as the dynamics of the pickup are different too. So you can't achieve a totally "balanced" stereo image this way.

However, I do sympathise over the problem you describe with getting a good sound using mics. I have had similar problems and have found that going closer in with a little more separation between the mics gives the best results for me........ although it depends on the guitar as well, so there's no magic "fix"!

Paul

[KevWind]

[QUOTE=DarkestDreaming;


Paul,
you effectively solved the problem for me by balancing it back center and still maintaining my pickup/mic balance. Can you please share how you did it? Did you send some of the left channel to the right?
.[/QUOTE]

The two easy ways to eliminate this balance issue is 1. Get a better record balence adjusted prior to recording. 2 record to two mono tracks instead of one stereo. Then any volume difference still present can be adjusted easily with idividual track levels.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by DarkestDreaming

Hi Doug,

I read up on the stereo miking techniques in the link you provided for me in the initial Mixing solo fingerstyle thread. I took a couple of weeks trying out most of the techniques but they didn't sound satisfactory, I guess mostly because of the room i am in (i have tried multiple mic positions with equally weak results)

Learning mic placement can take a long time. It is simple once you get it, but I've spent more hours than I want to think about to find something that really works for me and the sound I want. I recommend this a lot here, but I think it's worth saying every day :-) Anyone getting into recording solo acoustic should get a Zoom H4n or similar recorder. It's "falling off a log" simple. Turn it on, put it in front of your guitar and press record. It should, and likely will, sound very, very good. If it doesn't, something else is wrong, guitar, room acoustics, etc. After you're getting an excellent sound, close to being CD-ready with the portable recorder, you're ready to move on to "better" gear and more options. You can even combine your pickup and mics with the Zoom. You can struggle with all kinds of gear and options, or get a simple $299 box that "just works". If you can't get a very good solo guitar sound with one of these, better gear isn't likely to help.

As for room treatment, i am confused with the actual terminology. Am i supposed to treat the room by soundproofing it entirely? Or slapping bass traps and absorbers here and there like the room treatment of a console room in the studio? Or is it like setting up a makeshift vocal booth in my house?

"Soundproofing" usually means keeping external noises out or internal sound in. What you want is "acoustic treatment", making the frequency response of your room uniform, getting rid of echoes. It's a complex topic, but just search on "room acoustics" or "acoustic treatment" and you'll be able to spend days and weeks reading. The good news is that for solo guitar, you don't have to go crazy. A few absorbers in the right place should be all you need. Check out Fran Guidry's blog:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

You may not even need to do that. I've done lots of recording in completely untreated rooms. With close micing, a typical furnished room can sound quite passible.


BTW, I agree with Pauls' comments on how to record and mix. A pickup+mic is not a stereo pair, so recording them on a stereo track and trying to balance them doesn't make sense. You have to choose how to blend them. Mono or slight panned as Paul did, makes sense to me. Here's what I did with it, a more complicated process that puts the pickup in the middle, with a sort of synthesized stereo created from the 1 mic, and lots of reverb (partly because Billy uses lots and partly to try to add some life to the pickupy sound):

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/Shells.mp3

[Fran Guidry]

Since Doug was kind enough to mention the Homebrewed Music blog, let me add another link: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

This is similar to the idea of making something like a vocal booth, but I think this might actually be preferable since it won't exhibit the strong low frequency build-up that occurs in a small space.

Fran

[DarkestDreaming]

Thanks all for the links

Actually i did not record it with the intention of doing a hard left and right and pass it off as a stereo recording.

My Sonar was acting up, it has a weird echo sound when i record. Tests with Reaper yielded the same results. What you hear as recorded on Virtual Dub, which is ironically a video editing software.

The software doesn't allow multiple tracking, overdubs etc. just a basic recorder. As a result both tracks were recorded simultaneously on a stereo, because virtualdub doesn't support multi-tracking.

My idea was to record it KnK left, Rode right, and then do a stereo split and then go from there. But i just ended up slapping on effects to it, which is the result that you hear.

Truth is, balance issues aside, I was quite happy with the recorded sound. The reason why the mic sounds thin was also that i was miking it off axis pointing it somewhere at the bottom of the fingerboard as a secondary compliment to the Knk. The pickup sounds 'wiry' as well because i rolled down the knk mic so that more of the pickup lows are recorded (both go in the same track because i only have two, and the other was for the Rode). Both signals on their own not so, but together i think it sounded fairly good. Thoughts?

[DarkestDreaming]

Also I would like to thank all of you who have contributed so far. All of this is really helping me, and is much appreciated. I will take some time to read up on the links provided. Looks like i have my work cut out for me!

[Doug Young]

The echo is probably just the latency of the monitoring mode. There may be settings to allow you to monitor in the input directly instead of the output, or it may be in your audio card. You are talking about the sound when you record, not playback, right? There's little reason to listen thru headphones while recording solo guitar, if that's what you mean.

Advice? Scrap the pickup until you've learned to get a good sound with stereo mics, it'll be a huge step forward. But I've said that before :-)

[DarkestDreaming]

Doug,
I have ascertained that its not input monitoring mode. It captures that way, and turns up on record with input monitoring turned off, speakers headphones and all other sound producing devices turned off as well

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by DarkestDreaming

Doug,
I have ascertained that its not input monitoring mode. It captures that way, and turns up on record with input monitoring turned off, speakers headphones and all other sound producing devices turned off as well

Don't know what to suggest. Something's wrong with the setup, it certainly shouldn't do that. Perhaps someone who has your hardware to software will chime in.

[DarkestDreaming]

Doug, its not a main worry for me since i managed to narrow it down to either software or driver related (virtualdub doesn't gove me the weird artifact). So worst case is just a reformat really (i've already reinstalled and deleted aud.ini files)

Thanks for all the advice again, all of you! and also taking the time to mix my tracks. I will heed your advice and look into room treatment and mic placement, and i'll return with a recording for you to critique. Peace.