#1
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Learning songs old school
I recently came across an instructional artist named Daddystovepipe. In his literature he states that there are no scale practices , just learning songs the way the venerated old bluesmen did. Scales have been the bane of my learning most of my life. I can’t relate them to the styles of music that intrigue me. Coincidentally, I’ve never played games either my whole life of any kind. It’s a mind numbing pursuit for me. I prefer to just get lost in my thoughts. Daddystovepipe claims by learning the vast repertoire he has you will soon be able to improvise different parts of songs from memory of others you’ve assimilated in your playing. His music is what I’ve searched for the five decades a guitar has frequently been in my hands. I’m putting together a large order from him this week and will immerse myself in it. No more tv watching or mindless net surfing. I’ve already made progress on one song by him. He breaks them down so thoroughly tabs go by the wayside. He has a website as well as voluminous youtube videos. Very soon my guitar playing is going to be what I’ve wanted since my dad got me a cheap Gibson electric when I was 9 following the Beatles first American tv appearance. Hopefully I’ll soon be “playing a guitar just like ringing a bell” to quote Mr. Berry!
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#2
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I was playing the guitar for years before I learned scales, reading standard notation, etc. I had the advantage of being self taught. I know many people who quit taking lessons out of boredom and frustration. Many of those quit the instrument entirely but many continued on their own to become fine players. In my opinion, most structured guitar instruction is backwards.
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#3
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Well, one thing is certain. Not everybody can learn the same way. That coupled with your goals, should help you decide the direction of your learning experience.
If, for instance, you want to play in orchestral settings, then the traditional by the numbers approach, is going to be the way, IMO. Most of us are drawn to a folk or peoples music of some kind. Blues, definitely fits the category. Pete Seeger style folk music would be another. I have played Tradional Irish music for quite a long time. This music is rarely taught formally. Yet, I know many musicians that are beyond excellent. I once met a fiddler who knew 1500 tunes by heart. I don't think that was an exaggeration as I watched him play for nearly two hours with only a short break. Irish Trad was tradionally taught by ear. No sheet music, no scales, etc. To a large degree, it is still taught that way. I would not expect most Trad musicians to be able to play in orchestras. Conversely, I have witnessed formally trained musicians of various stripes, assume they could play Trad and struggle terribly. There are things that don't translate to sheet music well. I am a long time Blues lover, too. I don't think most great Blues players learned by any way other than learning "on the job." I am not suggesting that there is anything wrong with formal music education. Only that desired outcome may be helpful in determining an approach to music learning. Last edited by Paddy1951; 02-07-2019 at 07:30 PM. |
#4
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Playing scales are not a bad thing, but you can get into a rut and only play scales instead of tunes. Your soling might then sound like scales. Same thought process can be applied to practicing chord arpeggios.
Diversity is a wonderful thing when it comes to learning new songs. I try to practice something different each day of the week
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2003 Froggy Bottom H-12 Deluxe 2019 Cordoba C-12 Cedar 2016 Godin acoustic archtop 2011 Godin Jazz model archtop |
#5
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Interesting topic, Dave. I've bumped into Daddy Stovepipe on the internet and like his style.
With all the resources available today it is easy to lose focus. Tab is a blessing and a curse to me. Great for trying out songs I can't pick up by ear (which is almost anything done fingerpicking, I'm a lot better with chords), but I can't say I really know the tune until it is in my memory. This was brought home to me recently after seeing a performer whose songs I really liked (singer/songwriter on piano). I bought his CD, but he is not the kind of guy whose stuff people have tabbed out or even posted chords for. I played his CD in the car and sang along for a couple of weeks without any thought of learning them (I'm more focused on instrumentals these days). But one day I sat down with my guitar and had several of them worked out by ear in the original key in very short order. No paper involved, no listening to the songs while learning them. And I "know" those tunes like I know the pledge of allegiance--as opposed to tunes I've played much longer while looking at tab chord charts. So if Daddy has a way to learn tunes without tab I'd be really interested in hearing your feedback as you get into his materials, especially if his method is something more than "watch my hands and copy me" --which has never worked for me-- thus my reliance on tab. Good luck with it!
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Bob https://on.soundcloud.com/ZaWP https://youtube.com/channel/UCqodryotxsHRaT5OfYy8Bdg Last edited by reeve21; 02-09-2019 at 10:46 PM. |
#6
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I never did relate to scales. If a person makes the effort to place and switch between chords fluidly the ear will witlessly learn the scales. It will hear the relationships and begin to use them by guiding the hands through them. I think that's how it should be.
If I took the time to step out a song or instrumental in a video I think anyone could learn to play it. In the old school days people did exactly that. If a guy wrote something by ear and it was popular people wanted to learn it. But, there wasn't any sheet music or instructional material for it so it was learned in the aural tradition by listening repeatedly until it was learned. Or, if in person, the guy who knew it showed those who didn't note by note. Besides, reading music wasn't what folks wanted to do. They just wanted to play and skip the academics of learning to sight read notation. I've never used a tab. I taught myself the fretboard by ear and to do that my hands had to participate. it all just kind of worked itself out naturally. |
#7
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I've always advised my son to learn songs/riffs/tunes he likes as an absolute priority and have no time whatsoever for players who play like they're participating in some kind of musical Olympics.
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"Discovery is as much a productive activity as creation." - David Friedman |
#8
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Whilst I do think that understanding al least basic and pentatonic scales are important, I didn't do so at first.
However I'm a great fan of my fellow European picker Daddy Stovepipe
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! |
#9
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Quote:
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Bill |
#10
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I did a lot of "scale" exercises as a young flat picker and
40 years later I'm using right hand studies which aren't exactly scales, but similar. I've started the study of the modes of scales to help me develop melodies. Scales are learning tools. I'm sure in classical training they are very important in learning the proper technique for that style .
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Barry Youtube! My SoundCloud page Avalon L-320C, Guild D-120, Martin D-16GT, McIlroy A20, Pellerin SJ CW Cordobas - C5, Fusion 12 Orchestra, C12, Stage Traditional Alvarez AP66SB, Seagull Folk Aria {Johann Logy}: |
#11
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I'm not saying scale practice is not useful. But it's really only for finger exercise: developing speed and dexterity on the instrument. Quote:
If you're talking competitive games, then I'm with you. As a game or sport, music is about recreation and self-expression, not competition. Quote:
The more songs you know, the bigger the vocabulary you have to make music how you want. Quote:
I started by learning to play the songs (or riffs) I liked. Why wouldn't you? Why would you do anything else? I.e., it was hardly a strategy for me, it was just the obvious thing to do. Mind you, I wasn't dissuaded from it by teachers of any kind... (I deliberately avoided lessons, I think because I intuited that they would be all about stupid technical exercises or irrelevant theory...) Quote:
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#12
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What are scales...?
David
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David My Woodworking YouTube channel - David Falkner Woodworking -------------------------------------------- Martin, Gallagher, Guild, Takamine, Falkner |
#13
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They are those things you scrape off of fish before you fry them.
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#14
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I did a similar approach. I never had traditional guitar lessons.
Never learned scales or music theory. If you seek a path as a professional musician to play in bands or an orchestra you have to learn music theory to communicate with the others. If you just enjoy playing and making music you don´t need any of this. I like the just learn a lot of differnet songs and styles way of learning guitar. |
#15
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