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  #16  
Old 09-15-2019, 02:43 PM
patrickgm60 patrickgm60 is offline
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Singing live your own compositions is already quite a handful, for virtually everyone. I would focus on songwriting (which is not live performance-related) and singing; guitar playing can be done by others, or slowly introduced.
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  #17  
Old 09-15-2019, 03:25 PM
orangeGretsch orangeGretsch is offline
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Thank you commenters for the next batch of thoughtful guidance. Agree on Toastmasters or something non-music related to understand how one relates to an audience. I so appreciate the commenter who understands that I'm not being hard on myself by looking critically at my weaknesses.

I recently got a one-hour performance coaching session from an elderly friend who teaches acting and vocals. I jokingly refer to her as Simon Cowell, because she levels with me. I'm not good onstage, and I'm not sure I ever will be, and that is not self-criticism. It's reality. I'm an amateur player, but I take music seriously because music is a big part of who I am. I don't do it to have fun or entertain; I do it because I have something to say.

I'm a writer-editor by profession, and the way writers improve is to distance ourselves from our work and get real - which means hearing the constructive criticism of others. I also appreciated the suggestion that I focus on my vocals and songwriting and let others play the instruments, where possible. I know it sounds odd, but I don't play music to have fun, although that's often a byproduct. I have a great sense of humor, but can't imagine cracking jokes onstage.

I'm going to talk to my music partner about how he can better support our duo (ie, step up and sing harmonies). He feels that we can get 45 minutes worth of material together. That's where all this is coming from...not open mics, but can I get to another level?
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  #18  
Old 09-15-2019, 05:40 PM
Nama Ensou Nama Ensou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeGretsch View Post
I'm not good onstage, and I'm not sure I ever will be, and that is not self-criticism. It's reality.
Facing reality is the only path towards progress and it's refreshing to see someone not scared to admit the truth.

Just stay true to yourself and gradually become comfortable on stage and people will grow to enjoy your natural presence there, guaranteed. They can generally sense a fake, and while they'll enjoy some of them, they'll notice the difference when you're genuine.

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I'm an amateur player, but I take music seriously because music is a big part of who I am. I don't do it to have fun or entertain; I do it because I have something to say.
That's exactly how every professional player started, as an amateur, with something to say.

Quote:
I have a great sense of humor, but can't imagine cracking jokes onstage.
It's better to be who you actually are than to try and force yourself to fit into someone elses shoes. Lots of great performers don't try to tell any jokes, much to the relief of their audiences. On the other hand, if something funny comes to you naturally during a particular performance, that can go much further than canned/forced jokes. (Please, no more tuning jokes!)

Quote:
I'm going to talk to my music partner about how he can better support our duo (ie, step up and sing harmonies). He feels that we can get 45 minutes worth of material together. That's where all this is coming from...not open mics, but can I get to another level?
I really like that he's being an optimistic driving force, but also that you too appear to be driven to improve.

Open mics can be a fun outlet at times, a great place to start, grow and meet others, but are also a dead end for many players. I can see you gaining confidence and experience at open mics, and a few months from now posting about the gigs that you've been doing as a result of the experience gained.
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  #19  
Old 09-15-2019, 05:51 PM
GerryTB GerryTB is offline
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To me writing music, playing an instrument and performing are 3 separate skills. Refining performing even further is becoming an “entertainer”. As a life long player it took me a long time to recognize that being a good instrumentalist wasn’t any guarantee of going over well with an audience.
For most people performing is a separate skill that requires it’s own “practice”.... you either want to be good at that or not.

Some people are lucky enough to feel comfortable being themselves in front amid a crowd and are natural entertainers who are also good players and singers.
Other people have successful careers “acting” like they are comfortable on stage, but if you see them often enough you can see that every “intimate, off hand” moment and “story” are all carefully scripted. There are some very prominent stars that have been doing the same introductions to the same songs for the last 40 years.

Decide what you want to be. There are differences paths to “success” and happiness. See what part of the equation fills your need.
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  #20  
Old 09-16-2019, 04:02 AM
ChrisE ChrisE is offline
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Sorry for not reading all the responses, but I’ll jump in and add my only bit of advice:

The more comfortable you are with the material, the more comfortable you’ll be performing it in front of an audience.

I only do covers, but my most nervous times performing are when I’ve been asked to learn a new song for a wedding with just a couple days advance notice. Lots of pressure to not mess it up.
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  #21  
Old 09-16-2019, 06:56 AM
Nama Ensou Nama Ensou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisE View Post
The more comfortable you are with the material, the more comfortable you’ll be performing it in front of an audience.
Absolutely no replacement for being well prepared.

Quote:
I’ve been asked to learn a new song for a wedding with just a couple days advance notice. Lots of pressure to not mess it up.
Yeah, it can get heavy sometimes when you have multiple songs to learn that you've never even heard before, but it's a great way to add material and some of my standouts from the rest of my repertoire came from wedding requests.
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  #22  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:39 AM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nama Ensou View Post
This is one of the hallmarks of a musician who will always keep improving. One of most damaging, trite and meaningless things you can hear is being told not to worry about it, you're your own worst critic, you'll never be satisfied.

If you don't worry about it, you'll never improve.

Your real worst critics will be scattered among the club owners, drunks and jealous listeners who insist that if you'd only listen to them then you'd be better than you are.

If you become satisfied, then you're at the end of your improvement stages and will never get better.


Your approach of watching and listening to your own performance and then determining what it is you didn't like and how to fix it is the best thing you can do in your quest to be the best you that you can imagine.

Two very important points, which you may already have in mind, are acknowledging both your strengths and your weaknesses, honestly.

Take advantage of your strengths and work at improving in your weak areas and you'll always be getting better.
I agree with all of this. I will add that as players, singers etc. that playing and singing are a skill. Performing (ie doing those same things in front of others with the intent to entertain them) is a different skill. You need to separate the two mentally in a way.

My wife and I play about 100 gigs a year. I had similar issues, just not quite as severe. I made up my mind in the early days that if I sounded 50-60% as good in public as I do at home that it was a win. The more I played, the higher the % has gone. I now play 90-95% as good in public now. IMO, when you hit the 98-99% mark you are ready to be a full time pro (provided that your at-home skills are adequate).

This is just my take on it, but I have found it helpful.

You will also find that the higher the % goes, the more forgiving you are with your own shortcomings too - 'cause we all got 'em.
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  #23  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:39 AM
jaymarsch jaymarsch is offline
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Performance like guitar playing or singing takes practice and repetition to get completely comfortable so it takes time. As others have said, you have to keep at it and put in the time to have the material down. I recently stopped pursuing performing mostly due to time constraints and wanting to become a better singer and guitar player before I focused on putting time and energy into what is required to become a better performer.

Performance anxiety is common and it is easier for some to manage it and harder for others. But, preparation instills confidence and confidence is one antidote to anxiety. Having a performance coach, if you find one that is a good match for you, can be very helpful.

Best,
Jayne
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  #24  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:50 AM
Nama Ensou Nama Ensou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roylor4 View Post
My wife and I play about 100 gigs a year. I had similar issues, just not quite as severe. I made up my mind in the early days that if I sounded 50-60% as good in public as I do at home that it was a win. The more I played, the higher the % has gone. I now play 90-95% as good in public now. IMO, when you hit the 98-99% mark you are ready to be a full time pro (provided that your at-home skills are adequate).
Reading some of these posts sure makes me wish I could hear some of the other members here.

It's funny, but for me, I always do my best when I've got an audience to play for, and I suppose at least one reason for it is that I can sense their attention and openness to what I'm singing/playing. I love a quiet audience that is all turned your direction and feel that every bit of effort is so totally worth it at those times.
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  #25  
Old 12-02-2019, 06:05 AM
Su_H. Su_H. is offline
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I share a lot of the same struggles of what the OP is going through. I believe folks like us tend to be very self critical. I recently performed in my company's talent show anf I was a nervous wreck. My fingers were literally shaking throughout the piece. I have performed numerous times before as a music student but the nervous breakdowns were never this extreme.....and I wonder if my mentality going into this talent show was all wrong. I had all the intentions of winning this friendly competition and I wonder if by thinking that way - I put more pressure on myself.
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  #26  
Old 12-02-2019, 07:16 AM
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People who are used to critical attention have a hard time performing. People who desire any attention that is given them thrive.
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  #27  
Old 12-02-2019, 07:23 AM
Neal Pert Neal Pert is offline
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This is going to sound glib, but...

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.
Meditation.

They even have yoga that's particularly directed toward performers.

Also, check out the books The Inner Game of Music and Effortless Mastery.
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  #28  
Old 12-02-2019, 10:16 AM
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Mbroady Mbroady is offline
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Every performing musician that I know has dealt with stage fright. How each one dealt with it, including myself was a personal Journey, but there are a few Universal truths when it comes to stage fright IMHO.

The first is stage fright creates tension and where there’s tension it's almost impossible to breathe diaphragmatically. And if you can't breathe correctly you just can't sing at your best. I also feel that improper breathing effects how we play.

Another truth is, I know I State the obvious when I say this but stage fright is all about fear, fear of rejection fear of being judged unworthy ....Etc


I think the best therapy is force yourself to do it, week after week month after month year after year. Just keep playing, breathe and deal with your fear head-on


All the best on your journey
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  #29  
Old 12-02-2019, 10:18 AM
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duplicate post
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Last edited by Mbroady; 12-02-2019 at 01:31 PM.
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  #30  
Old 12-02-2019, 10:22 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Meditation, just breathing. 10 deep breaths in through nose, hold a second or two, out through mouth. You'll be amazed how that can calm you down in the moment.

As for being nervous all day, that's a classic case of "psyching yourself out." Best cure for that is to be well practiced and prepared. Might even mean it's okay to simplify a part or something, so you know you can nail it. My thing when performing (when I get to decide what to play) is to open with something I could play in my sleep. Get the juices flowing, get into a groove.

The other thing I'll tell you, that I'm sure you've heard but it bears repeating...99% of your audience will never notice a mistake--unless you draw attention to it.
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