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  #61  
Old 07-04-2019, 11:26 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Thanks Jon,

Here is another demo of pickup v5

All recordings made by Zoom H2 about 1 m from amp (no reverb)
1) Guitar plugged into the SR JAM 150 (treble to 11:30, reste is flat)
2) Guitar plugged into Laney AH4x4
3) Guitar recorded acoustically, the zoom is in front of the 12th frets about an arm away.

For the amplified recordings, I am playing a separate room so there is no mic bleed.



I am sure I can get a bit more low and low mids... since the untaped sensor gave something like that. I guess it could be because:
* Longer length of vibrating membrane
* Added mass to the vibrating membrane (untaped post)
* Weak acoustic transfert

I am not sure it is worth working out that. I'd probably have better working on the preamp and include some basic EQuing like a tone pot or mid scoop/boost and change the low cut frequency...
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  #62  
Old 07-04-2019, 12:29 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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I like either PUP better than the mic... Maybe I'm the wrong guy to be doing critical listening. I am playing back through my CP8 sitting on the floor with it's EQ set to floor monitor. It's too bad that a quick install and removal of a K&K for a reference recording is expensive and impractical.
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  #63  
Old 10-20-2019, 04:29 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Default Pickup v5.1 disapointing...

As my DIY pedal project is on standby... I made a pickup v5.1 for my Martin D-18.

* The new pickup has no nuts
* The nylon screws are replaced by heavier pastic screws (I bought what was available)
* The PVDF films are new so more rigid
* The preamp is unshielded (did not have time to make a box)
* The input impedance is reduced to 2.2 Mohm for a tighter bass
* The output capacitor was changed (may be some resistors too)
* It has a Tapastrings vintage jack




Here is a comparison with a SM57 recorded straight into a focusrite 2i2 (no EQ, no reverb):


Here is a recording through a A&H ZED10FX and a SR JAM150. The sound is recorded with a SM57 at 1m from the JAM straight into the focusite 2i2 (no EQ, no Reverb)


I think it sound less balanced than the pickup v5 in the Eastman, very "boxy". It lacks some "air" (high end).

I guess the fact that the sensor is heavier is the culprit but it also might be due to the guitar.

I have to look if I can find 4 nylon screws... or go back to the Pickup v5 design, the nylon screws and nut gave more flexibility to the 3D-printed post... It light help getting back my high end...

Nota Bene: Just noticed that I also changed the cable for some mogami small flexible K&K style cable... with 3 higher capacitance. That is very likely to be the culprit
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
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Last edited by Cuki79; 10-20-2019 at 04:53 AM.
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  #64  
Old 10-20-2019, 07:09 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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I put out Pickup v5.1 from the D-18, unmounted one of the sensor posts to put back regular pickup v5

Guess what? Pickup v5.1 is indeed boxy compared to v5



In the video, everything is the same but the 3D-print posts and the screws/nuts
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  #65  
Old 10-21-2019, 11:54 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Hi everyone,

so I put the old nylon screws and nuts on the two sensors and put them back in the D-18

Sorry for the bad picture quality (cellphone inside a guitar)


Here is a comparison with a SM57, everything is recorded straight into the focusrite 2i2 (No reverb, no EQ)


Here is a recording through an amp (A&H ZED10fx mixer and SR tech JAM 150)


I think the boxiness is gone. it's a bit bright but the 2.2 Mohm input impedance give a very tight bass. I could refine that. Also it's a bit scooped, that would probably require to change the sensors position.

Note that even with the right screws and nuts, the second sensor is darker. I put the dark sensor on the treble side and the bright and defined one on the bass side. I probably could do the opposite to get a less defined sound.

Cheers,
Cuki
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  #66  
Old 10-21-2019, 11:58 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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V5 in the Eastman was truly magic. Exactly how that happened is something worth reverse engineering.
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  #67  
Old 10-22-2019, 12:48 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
V5 in the Eastman was truly magic. Exactly how that happened is something worth reverse engineering.
I can't reverse engineer something I made myself!!! Currently the only differences with the Eastman pickup are the cables (bigger capacitance), the input impedance, the couplling capacitor and the shielding... and of course the pickup position could be different.

Also I am pretty sure, I lack a bit of consistency: It's a DIY project! The darker sensor is clearly hold too tight in the posts.

Doug Young once said that some pickups work with some guitars and not with the others.

I can see in the futur making my self a kit, so I have different sets of posts, screws, nut to be able to adjust the response of the sensor to taste and trying it first on the top of the guitar before fitting it inside.
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Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
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  #68  
Old 10-22-2019, 05:41 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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The grail would be if what happened with V5 in the Eastman was turned into a repeatable deterministic procedure that could be used in any guitar. I can't think of any pickup demo ever that so closely matched the mic (in particular for a single source!).
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  #69  
Old 10-22-2019, 07:58 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Honestly,

It might not be possible.

What is possible is to make a kit: with different posts and preamp setting, so you can tune your pickup to your guitar.

I will bring the D-18 to my local dealer so he can give me his point of view. I am still not sure if I need to tune in order to add some low end or low mids...
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Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
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  #70  
Old 10-22-2019, 09:47 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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All the variation in pickup design Dazzo implements now makes a bit of sense to me. But I think you would need to bring your guitar to him and work with him on the selection process.
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  #71  
Old 10-22-2019, 03:00 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Here is a demo of the effect of the sensor position

First I pushed the treble sensor away from the saddle toward the X-brace

Here is the demo video


Then I pushed the bass sensor away from the saddle toward the X-brace

Here is the demo video:
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  #72  
Old 10-23-2019, 02:50 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Final tweak

The Bass sensor gets plastic screws for a darker attack. The goal was to remove the zing/harshness that was too present.

It is pushed back, away from the saddle line and at halfway toward the X-brace.

I think the overall tone is more balanced.



Here is the recording direct into the focusrite: no EQ, no Reverb.
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Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
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  #73  
Old 10-23-2019, 04:20 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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https://soundcloud.com/user-88552451...ah4x4-acoustic sounds really good. The pickup and the Zoom's mic sound nearly identical. Is it possible the difference is the SM57 in the subsequent recordings?
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  #74  
Old 10-24-2019, 12:15 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
https://soundcloud.com/user-88552451...ah4x4-acoustic sounds really good. The pickup and the Zoom's mic sound nearly identical. Is it possible the difference is the SM57 in the subsequent recordings?
I don't know. The plugged in tone always sound better on the AH4x4. Probably because of a limited bandwidth.

The Eastman 6OM, has less low end and less high end, therefore the difference might not be as significant.

The D-18 massive low end might be due to the soundhole radiation and an active back. Those might not be as well captured by the sensors. I check the spectrum yesterday and the two tracks looks pretty much the same.

I might try to make an IR to investigate the difference.

Anyway in the room it sounds good. Mic vs pickup comparison is always a difficult challenge. Especially with no EQ and no reverb.
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Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
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Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
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  #75  
Old 12-07-2019, 04:12 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Default Distortion & Input impedance

Today I did an interesting experiment.

While playing with the JBL I found that when playing hard the Eastman Pickup v5 I had distortion.

Here is a sample (I dig as hard as I can)


I computed a spectrum of the strumming and found a HUGE peak at 20 Hz.



So I decided to go for a surgery and reduce the 5.6 Mohm impedance to 1 Mohm. I would increase the low cut-off frequency to 30 Hz and apply -3 or -4dB around 20 Hz.

As shown by the spectrum on the right inset of the first figure: it worked.

I get less distortion, but what amazes me is how the tone changed!


I am supposed to have cut only non-musical content (<80 Hz) but the tone is much brighter.

Although I do know that when you cut the lows the overall tone gets bright... But in this case I find it amazing...
It means getting a balanced tone out of a SBT is a challenge by itself, because the less low end, the less feedback but the more brightness you get... If you cut the highs (think tone pot) to decrease the brightness, the less "air"/"mic"/"realism" you'll have. Once all that managed, you might end up with something close to a well installed UST...

Anyway it is maybe time to design a proper preamp for this pickup (with more headroom !)

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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/

Last edited by Cuki79; 12-07-2019 at 04:19 PM.
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