Tonedexter on six different guitars / pickups

[jwellsy]

I don't have a TD, but wonder if the secret sauce may be more in how much mic to add into the IR mix, which may be more important than which mic is used.

[Marshall]

How much mic? What do you mean? What the TD does is make your pickup sound like what it hears from the microphone (wavemap). 100%. When you play through it later, you can choose to mix the wavemap (created with a microphone) with some of the plain electric pickup sound, if you like. But I don't personally care for that.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

Me too. Particularly the Martin 017 with the K&K pure mini. I have one fitted to my guitar and have played around with pre-amps but actually when it's plugged straight into the p/a desk it sounds the best (so far). I don't have a TD.

It must be frustrating that in some cases the TD made a positive difference over the raw p/u but in others not so. It is a lot of money to spend if you can't get exactly what you want from it (ie, to sound like your guitar mic'd). None of the clips sounded as good as each guitar did just on the mic', which is a disappointment really.

The 017 was surprising, it actually sounded like a mic. It look as though it's the Trinity system in that guitar and I know none of the internal mic is on but it has that sound.

I agree though, in many cases I preferred the raw pickup. With that said, one can play around with the mic placement to get a more desired sound. It's also why I tend to use my TD with a lower blend (40-50%). I get a bit more high end/airy mic like quality but my raw pickup isn't completely lost.

[guitarman68]

Thank you all for listening and commenting - I really appreciate !

And yes, that's what it should be: A resource for all who are interested.

To clear things up a bit: In no case did I use any internal mic (yes, it's a Trinity system in the 017, and there is a DPA in the Pre-War).

Comparisons like these always suffer from one problem: The recorded pickup (or even "dexterized") signal sounds different from what you hear when played through a speaker (and that's what the audience will hear). So I should offer a comparison recording a miked speaker - uuuh, time to get back to work again.

I'm always unhappy with how the K&K sounds in the O17. So I removed the middle element, and that cleared things up a bit. But it's far away from a good amplified sound. Maybe I try Schatten HFN or Ultra Tonic V3 - looking forward to James May's new baby. The Ultra Tonic V2 to me is perfect in my Merrill C28.

[guitarman68]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

It's also why I tend to use my TD with a lower blend (40-50%). I get a bit more high end/airy mic like quality but my raw pickup isn't completely lost.

Great advice - thanks ! I'll try that.

[jwellsy]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I agree though, in many cases I preferred the raw pickup. With that said, one can play around with the mic placement to get a more desired sound. It's also why I tend to use my TD with a lower blend (40-50%). I get a bit more high end/airy mic like quality but my raw pickup isn't completely lost.

That's what I was talkin bout, without knowing what I was talkin bout.

[SpruceTop]

With another listening, let me add that, along with my original choice of the Sunrise-only/Martin D-18 combination, I also like the Takamine EN-10 both with and without the ToneDexter.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

With another listening, let me add that, along with my original choice of the Sunrise-only/Martin D-18 combination, I also like the Takamine EN-10 both with and without the ToneDexter.

My opinion has changed a few times for sure, especially once I used a good set of headphones. Those Takamine palathetic pickups really are still a great option. Other than the Sunrise, it was probably the most pleasing overall tone bypassed and I bet it's dead simple to dial in live. It's kind of why I have been considering the LB6.

When I first started playing, I bought a G series Takamine guitar. I had always thought that the G series used the Palathetic pickup because it just sounded great plugged in. Unfortunately, that guitar had an accident where it was knocked over and the headstock snapped off. I was curious about the pickup so I pulled it out and I guess on the lower end models, Takamine uses a very similar pickup to the LB6 which is six individual sensors attached to the bottom of the saddle. I have wanted a system like this for a while as it just sounds great.

With that said, I still really liked the Ultra Tonic though and would like to give the V3 a try.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

My opinion has changed a few times for sure, especially once I used a good set of headphones. Those Takamine palathetic pickups really are still a great option. Other than the Sunrise, it was probably the most pleasing overall tone bypassed and I bet it's dead simple to dial in live. It's kind of why I have been considering the LB6.

When I first started playing, I bought a G series Takamine guitar. I had always thought that the G series used the Palathetic pickup because it just sounded great plugged in. Unfortunately, that guitar had an accident where it was knocked over and the headstock snapped off. I was curious about the pickup so I pulled it out and I guess on the lower end models, Takamine uses a very similar pickup to the LB6 which is six individual sensors attached to the bottom of the saddle. I have wanted a system like this for a while as it just sounds great.

With that said, I still really liked the Ultra Tonic though and would like to give the V3 a try.

The Takamine Palathetic pickup was pretty much copied by Cole Clark for the saddle portion of their pickup systems. The Cole Clark version uses larger piezo elements, though.

As you know, but likely many folks may not, the Takamine Palathetic Pickup's six piezo elements aren't in direct contact with the wood of the bridge or the guitar's top. The saddle slots are completely routed through the body and top and the saddle sits on top of the piezo elements which are contained in the pickup housing assembly which is then bolted to the guitar. Thus, although the string vibration is sensed directly by the pickup system, string vibration is indirectly transferred to the wood of the guitar by the pickup housing and back into the housing with its contact with the guitar's wood. Thus, the pickup senses both string and top and body vibration. The system was likely designed as a means of lessening feedback during amplified performances.

Another interesting thing about Takamine Guitars is that they were first imported and distributed by Kaman Industries the parent company of Ovation Guitars.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

The Takamine Palathetic pickup was pretty much copied by Cole Clark for the saddle portion of their pickup systems. The Cole Clark version uses larger piezo elements, though.

As you know, but likely many folks may not, the Takamine Palathetic Pickup's six piezo elements aren't in direct contact with the wood of the bridge or the guitar's top. The saddle slots are completely routed through the body and top and the saddle sits on top of the piezo elements which are contained in the pickup housing assembly which is then bolted to the guitar. Thus, although the string vibration is sensed directly by the pickup system, string vibration is indirectly transferred to the wood of the guitar by the pickup housing and back into the housing with its contact with the guitar's wood. Thus, the pickup senses both string and top and body vibration. The system was likely designed as a means of lessening feedback during amplified performances.

Another interesting thing about Takamine Guitars is that they were first imported and distributed by Kaman Industries the parent company of Ovation Guitars.

Didn't Maton copy it as well? The pickup is definitely quite involved and the bridge is basically built around it. Here's a pic of the G series version. As you can see, it's more of an LB6 type of set up with the six elements attached to the bottom of the saddle: https://hazeguitars.com/blog/adjusti...egrated-pickup

I follow a band here in Canada (Great Big Sea) who have used Takamine guitars for a good 30 years and have always had incredible tones. They aggressively strum and the guitars still sound great. I remember in an interview once they said that the preferred the older Takamine preamps vs. the new ones. I feel like the early 90's versions. Not sure if there's anything to that but they still only use 90's models.

Regardless, Takamine guitars are still a great stage option. I still feel as though they are the most consistent and easy to dial in guitar to use live.

[mondoslug]

Hey, great video...thanks for posting! It's all good & a fantastic sounding mic!

[Marty C]

Very nice Robert. I too, thank you for strumming. I am actually very impressed with your pickups. I would be happy getting just your pickup sound.

Very niceLy done video.

[GuitarLuva]

guitarman68, great work man! It takes a lot of time and effort to do this kind of comparison. Also, it's nice to see someone who has most of the popular SBT's in guitars they currently own. I'm a HFN fan myself and can't see me switching anytime soon (probably never), at least to glue in type pickups.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Didn't Maton copy it as well? The pickup is definitely quite involved and the bridge is basically built around it. Here's a pic of the G series version. As you can see, it's more of an LB6 type of set up with the six elements attached to the bottom of the saddle: https://hazeguitars.com/blog/adjusti...egrated-pickup

I follow a band here in Canada (Great Big Sea) who have used Takamine guitars for a good 30 years and have always had incredible tones. They aggressively strum and the guitars still sound great. I remember in an interview once they said that the preferred the older Takamine preamps vs. the new ones. I feel like the early 90's versions. Not sure if there's anything to that but they still only use 90's models.

Regardless, Takamine guitars are still a great stage option. I still feel as though they are the most consistent and easy to dial in guitar to use live.

Yeah, Maton, too, I believe.

The Takamine Integrated Pickup in the link you provided looks like slenderer version of the Ovation OCP pickup, complete with the bottom metal-channel. Ovation (Kaman Industries) was the original importer/distributor of Takamine guitars but is no longer. I wonder if Ovation (Kaman) money was behind Takamine's development and usage of the Palathetic and Integrated Pickup in Takamine guitars?

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Yeah, Maton, too, I believe.

The Takamine Integrated Pickup in the link you provided looks like slenderer version of the Ovation OCP pickup, complete with the bottom metal-channel. Ovation (Kaman Industries) was the original importer/distributor of Takamine guitars but is no longer. I wonder if Ovation (Kaman) money was behind Takamine's development and usage of the Palathetic and Integrated Pickup in Takamine guitars?

Good point, they definitely do look identical! I bet that's what Lr Baggs were going for with the Lb6. Definitely similar set ups.