#1
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Royer R-121 use with a Tone Dexter
I am contemplating buying a Tone Dexter and, obviously, want to use a better mic than my SM58. A good friend has a nice selection of really good mics and he suggested using his Royer R-121. Any have thoughts on this?
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#2
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You mean to model the sound of the acoustic. I have a Royer 121 and it's my favorite mic for recording electric guitar amps. It's not my go to for acoustic. It can be a bit too dark on it's on. Maybe mixed with a piezo it will be OK but in the studio acoustics are generally mic'd with condenser mic's. I like the AKG 414. At home I use an AT 4050 or an AKG 535.
My suggestion would be to go over your friends and maybe try a few and see what you think. The only thing I wonder about those boxes like the Tone Dexter, Aura etc is if the guitar still responds the same. The singer in my band has the old Line 6 Acoustic modeling guitar and while it "sounds" like a mic'd acoustic my singer tells me it doesn't feel the same as a real acoustic plugged in. I've tried both the Fishman and Mama Bear and they always seem pretty phony to me. Maybe just my experience and perhaps the TD is better. What's you application? For me in my home studio it's easy to just mic. Live I find the environment makes a huge difference in a plugged in acoustic tone. Generally I go through a pair of QSC K10's and use a Taylor T5 that was modded with a different pickup or my old Taylor 612 with the D-Tar Wavelength paired with a Fishman Platinum Pro EQ. The Wavelength/Taylor combo sounds really good. I may eventually add the mic version of the D-Tar. |
#3
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If the room you are in sucks and/or if the preamp you are using (including perhaps the Tonedexter's preamp) does not provide sufficient clean gain, then your Wavemap might suffer. |
#4
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If anything, what I hear with the ToneDexter is that I get a response that feels much more like the natural acoustic sound than most pickups. For example, with a UST, that quack sound of the pickup doesn't feel like a natural response. With ToneDexter the quack is gone, and you're back to something that's much closer to the feel of the guitar. I find I actually enjoy playing thru the TD amplified, partly because it sounds good, but maybe more importantly that it "feels" like I'm playing an un-amplified acoustic.
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#5
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Cochese,
It should be added that the response will depend somewhat on the pickup used with ToneDexter. If you use ToneDexter with an SBT-equipped guitar, you'll get a better response to top tapping than you'll get when using ToneDexter with a UST-equipped guitar. One of the big advantages of ToneDexter, as opposed to Mama Bear and Aura, is that it can be used effectively with a wider variety of pickups. That's already been verified (to my satisfaction, at least) by the user feedback. |
#6
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#7
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It is the best compliment you could give to the Tonedexter. I hope everyone on the AGF will read your post. Thanks Cuki
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#8
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#9
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I have tried K&K, Trance, Dazzo, DTar Wavelength, Barbera UST and also tried processing an internal mic so far. I have not tried to use it in a live performance, the loudest I've tried was at home thru a Fishman SA330. It does bring out the resonances in your guitar, so it may increase the odds of feedback if you play loud, tho you can always EQ, and there's a feedback filter, too. My Trance-equipt guitar is a very deep-sounding guitar, and it had trouble with bass feedback thru the SA330 with the first model I tried. I was able to address it simply by rolling off the bass a bit, and then retrained with the mic further back to reduce the bass from the proximity effect and that helped as well. You might have to do a few different passes on training to find the right model for your playing style, gear, and environment.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#10
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If one were to use an R-121 for live use, it would have to be treated with special care, which is easy enough, but there is still the eventual likelihood of an audience member or a careless soundguy damaging it. Just one more thing to worry about, since they aren't inexpensive. |
#11
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#12
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Ah, gotcha - thanks, Doug, for the continuing education. I've seen the name "ToneDexter" lots here lately, but I hadn't yet taken the time to look into what what exactly it does.
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#13
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But here's the caveat: It is somewhat brighter than than typical ribbons including the R-121 (I believe), but it is not as bright as condenser mics. The WaveMaps made with the NTR were on the dull end of the spectrum. So, while the R-121 would certainly work with ToneDexter, it wouldn't be my recommendation as I believe it would likely give you WaveMaps that you'd want to be brighter. But if you have access, it's easy to just try it and see how it works on your guitar. I do think you'll be better off using a small diaphragm condenser mic.
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James May Audio Sprockets maker of ToneDexter James May Engineering maker of the Ultra Tonic Pickup |
#14
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Thanks James. You confirmed what I had read.
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#15
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On our first album we recorded our mandolin and banjo with a Royer R121. It worked well and would probably be fine for training the ToneDexter, though maybe just a touch muted in the highs.
But why would you want to do this? I'm convinced that an Audix F9, Rode M3 or Audio Technica Pro 37 would all be just as good. And they're all under $150. Placement during training is like 95% of the equation and the mic (as long as it's a condenser with some air in the top) is maybe the other 5%. And that 5% is again altered when you go through various PA's.
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