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  #31  
Old 09-24-2011, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheclassics View Post
Do any of you who do NOT use fingerpicks only use tips of fingers, or nails? I cannot stand having long nails. I have always cut my nails as short as I can get them. Since I started playing in March I have been primarily finger picking and using thumb and three fingers (tips). Do those of you who use tips find the sound is slightly dulled (muddy) than if you use nails?
I started out playing guitar strictly fingerstyle. I couldn't stand long nails, either. But, as the years pressed on I found that a bit of nail made a huge difference in the sound. Now I keep my picking hand nails just long enough to get that sound without their being too long. I do make slight skin contact to gauge string presence but the actual sounding of the string is all nail. Fortunately, I have very strong nails.

I did try all the available fingertip pick products but none of them were to my satisfaction.
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  #32  
Old 09-24-2011, 09:50 PM
Nina Nina is offline
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Where should one look for advanced fingerpicking techniques?
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  #33  
Old 09-25-2011, 03:51 AM
stanron stanron is offline
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Well Nina your question raises quite a few other questions.

This has to be a subjective assessment. Which techniques do you consider to be basic? Which techniques are intermediate and which are advanced. The answers to these questions are going to be different for different people. If you can settle on a consensus then you will have developed a guitar curriculum. This probably already exists in classical guitar but in non classical finger style playing I'm not so sure. Could this be a subject for a separate thread?
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  #34  
Old 10-23-2011, 03:51 AM
polly9999 polly9999 is offline
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Refer to Stanron's thread on which finger is assigned to what string. Then practice some arpeggios...in the dark....turn the lights out and get those fingers memorized to their string. Have fun with it!
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  #35  
Old 10-23-2011, 05:28 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina View Post
Where should one look for advanced fingerpicking techniques?
As stanron says, that question begs a load of others.

Firstly, when you say "where should one look", do you mean where can you go to hear such styles, or where can you find lessons on how to play them?

Whichever it is, it still depends on what you mean by "advanced", because there are many different kinds of advanced fingerstyle (while there's only a couple of "basic" styles, and just a few basic techniques). Many players in folk, blues or rock have developed their own styles, branching out from the standard techniques. In one sense (outside classical guitar), there's almost as many "advanced fingerstyle techniques" as there are advanced fingerstyle players!

"Basic" means something like the excellent exercises stanron posted earlier - which are of two types: classical (3 fingers on strings 3-2-1, limited thumb action, arpeggiating chords and incorporating melodies); and folk-style alternating thumb bass (thumb leads, finger action is simpler and less strict, mostly for vocal accompaniment).

It's good to practise both, of course, but you will probably find you prefer one to the other as you progress.
In fact, becoming "advanced" tends to mean specialising in one direction. And perhaps (unless you go in the classical direction) developing some kind of personal approach of your own.

Eg, Merle Travis is an example of "advanced" alternating thumb style (contrary to what stanron said, he used it for instrumental performance as well as vocal accompaniment, but the style does need to be pretty advanced to allow that, so you can play melodies on top of the bass).

Players like John Martin and John Mayer developed percussive right hand picking styles - which are "advanced" if you don't know how to do them! (There are other advanced elements to their styles.)
This is a rough demo of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED-nMpwgbLA

And there is a whole new school of percussive style, incorporating tapping techniques, and using the body of the guitar as well as the strings. AFAIK, this style doesn't have a name yet - some call it "lap style", but it's not always played on the lap. Here's the same guy showing some of that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j63jR...eature=related
(this maybe doesn't count as "fingerstyle" at all...)
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  #36  
Old 10-23-2011, 06:18 AM
Harald Koll Harald Koll is offline
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Fingerpicking, fingerstyle, heavy wood approach, alternate or open tunings, classical technique, flamenco technique, the field is HUGE!

Once you've mastered basic/intermediate to some degree, advanced you should be able to pick up from there without too much help... Regardless of style and dialect, the basic principles are pretty much the same.

What you need is determined by which direction you want to take. Classical technique is the only way to go, if you want to play classical. For fingerpicking it could be not that good though, depending on how easily (or not) you can adept your posture and hands to a different style. The only truly standarised field of playing for guitarists is the classical repertoire. Beyond that people get excellent results with very different approaches. I don't think Merle Travis felt limited, but he wouldn't stand a chance in hell performing Leyenda. On the other hand, Segovia couldn't groove...

Any usefull help beyond the bare basics can only be given if you specify what you want to learn.

For the basics, the exercises given in the tabs look like a really good start for the techniques. Easy pieces that are nice help as well. Learn Dust in the wind. Once you can play the original guitar part, you're well into travis picking. And it's not too difficult. Is there anybody out there by Pink Floyd is nice for some simple arpeggios. Like the giuliani exercises, allthough I find the classical exercises musically less interesting on the whole. And the more arppegios and picking patterns youīve learned, the easier it becomes to learn yet another one. And there is plenty of nice stuff. Slightly more advanced Bring on the night, by the Police for example.

Another thing for the whole solo arrangement fingerstyle thing on guitar, if you want to develop in that direction, donīt focus on guitar alone. Work on what a bassplayer would play, work on what the rhythm guitar would do, learn to play melody, all separately, next to working on ways to combine those elements. Travis picking, itīs just the beginning of what can be done.
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  #37  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:09 AM
BigB BigB is offline
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Great stuff everyone, thanks!
I see the bad habit (well, one of them) I've developed is anchoring the hand on top of the guitar.
Do any accomplished fingerstyle players do this?

Thanks.
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  #38  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:41 AM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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The most direct approach if you have some finger independent skills already is to find the right songs and practice them until you can do them.
Practice controlling the volume produced by each finger. On more espressive pieces play with the tempo, stretching, compressing, playing inside
and outside the beat.

For most people the repertoire they pick, and playing that well, is basically what they become as a guitarist.

On top of that develop a good ear from careful listening so that you can comfortably morph things around thus providing a little spontaneity and
variation in how you play.
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  #39  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:02 AM
Harald Koll Harald Koll is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigB View Post
Great stuff everyone, thanks!
I see the bad habit (well, one of them) I've developed is anchoring the hand on top of the guitar.
Do any accomplished fingerstyle players do this?

Thanks.
Anchoring, well, again, it's style related. Classical or flamenco, it's a definite No no. Any other style, whatever works for you. Both for fingerstyle or flatpicking. The argument against is that it would hamper speed. Plenty fast players who anchor. The argument for anchoring, your hand knows where it is. Plenty really good players don't anchor, and their hand knows exactly where it is.

And for banjo players anchoring is mandatory, and all their speed comes from the picking hand...
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  #40  
Old 12-16-2011, 06:19 AM
tnvol tnvol is offline
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Thanks a bunch for this!! Good stuff.



Quote:
Originally Posted by stanron View Post
Gangleri

I've just dug up some stuff from my teaching days. Hope you find it of interest.

Starting finger picking.


Not every player needs to start from the same place. If you already have a range of guitar skills using a flat pick you may wish to skip the first bit.

Two finger arpeggios on G, C and D.

Thumb picks the three bass strings, 1st finger picks 3rd or G string, 2nd finger picks 2nd or B string. Space all notes evenly. Practice these on their own until you get fluent with them then link them together with chord sequences of your choice.

G (the same pattern will work for Em)
E|--------------------------------------------------
B|--------0-----------0-----------0-----------0----- 2nd finger
G|-----0-----0-----0-----0-----0-----0-----0-----0-- 1st finger
D|--------------------------0----------------------- thumb
A|--------------2-----------------------2----------- thumb
E|--3----------------------------------------------- thumb

C (C/G) (the same pattern will work for Am)
E|--------------------------------------------------
B|--------1-----------1-----------1-----------0-----
G|-----0-----0-----0-----0-----0-----0-----0-----0--
D|--------------------------------------2-----------
A|--3-----------------------3-----------------------
E|----------------3---------------------------------

D (D/F#)
E|--------------------------------------------------
B|--------3-----------3-----------3-----------3-----
G|-----2-----2-----2-----2-----2-----2-----2-----2--
D|--------------------------0-----------------------
A|--------------0-----------------------0-----------
E|--2-----------------------------------------------


2 Alternating thumb patterns

Timing is important in this type of picking. The thumb always picks on the beat. In this pattern the first time your finger picks is on the 2nd beat. Your thumb and finger should pick towards one another in what some people call a pinch. The second time your finger picks is between beats, on the + between beats 3 and 4.


No 1

G
E|--------------------------|
B|--------0-----------------|
G|-----------------0--------|
D|--------0-----------0-----|
A|--------------------------|
E|--3-----------3-----------|

....1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+..


It helps if you count as you play. You should play this as slowly as neccesary in order to get the timing correct. Taking one second, or even two seconds between beats is ok as long as your timing is consistant for the whole of the bar. When you learn this stuff you should learn one bar at a time. What happens is you start by giving yourself enough time to think what you have to do next. As you repeat it your muscles start to remember the sequence of actions. After a while you can stop thinking "thumb picks 6, finger picks 2 etc" and start thinking "play that faster" and your hands will obey. Just don't try and go too fast too soon.

One more thing. The learning cycle.

A typical learning cycle goes like this. You start slowly, telling each finger what to do. It goes into muscle memory and gets faster. And faster. You are impressed with how well it is all going. All of a sudden this little voice in your head says something like "Hey, I'm no longer in charge! What do I do next!" and you can't play it any more. Hero to zero in no time flat.
Don't panic. What has happened is you've encountered the mind and body separation zone. Someone will know a very clever name for it. The important thing is you have to learn to trust your muscle memory and not to second guess it. The solution is simple. Repeat the initial process. Start really slow and when muscle memory kicks in, speed it up. You may go through this cycle several times before you have it fully learned. The second time shouldn't take as long as the first and subsequent times should take even less. Any time you learn something new you will go through this process. The more practice at this you do, the quicker you will learn stuff.

You can control muscle memory with instructions like "play faster", "play softly" or "smoothly" or stuff like that. If you want to change notes in a sequence you have to go back to very slow and note by note. Muscle memory is very simple. It learns what you repeat. This brings us to;

Never repeat a mistake.

If you repeat a mistake your muscle memory will start to learn it. To correct something like this all you do is go back to very slow and play it correctly. If, as you speed up, the error recurs you have to go back to slow.

Once you can play this pattern try it in these shapes.

C/G D7/F#
E|--------------------------| E|-------------------------|
B|--------1-----------------| B|--------1----------------|
G|-----------------0--------| G|----------------2--------|
D|--------2-----------2-----| D|--------0----------0-----|
A|--------------------------| A|-------------------------|
E|--3-----------3-----------| E|--2----------2-----------|

....1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+..____..1..+..2..+..3..+ ..4..+.



Pattern No 2

G
E|--------------------------|
B|--0--------0--------------|
G|-----0-----------0--------|
D|--------0-----------0-----|
A|--------------------------|
E|--3-----------3-----------|

....1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+..

This pattern starts with a pinch and then alternates between finger and thumb. Don't forget to leave the gap for the final +. It is the same pattern for these chords.

C/G D7/F#
E|--------------------------| E|--------------------------|
B|--1--------1--------------| B|--1--------1--------------|
G|-----0-----------0--------| G|-----2-----------2--------|
D|--------2-----------2-----| D|--------0-----------0-----|
A|--------------------------| A|--------------------------|
E|--3-----------3-----------| E|--2-----------2-----------|

....1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+..____..1..+..2..+..3..+ ..4..+..

Playing No 1 and No 2 in sequence makes an interesting 2 bar pattern.

E|--------------------------|--------------------------|
B|--------0-----------------|--0--------0--------------|
G|-----------------0--------|-----0-----------0--------|
D|--------0-----------0-----|--------0-----------0-----|
A|--------------------------|--------------------------|
E|--3-----------3-----------|--3-----------3-----------|

....1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+. | .1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+..

This type of picking isn't meant to be a solo guitar style. It can be used for accompanying singing or another instrument.

To keep these first steps in alternating thumb style simple I only show picking on strings 2, 3, 4, and 6. Here's a short piece that shows how you can get a melody just by changing chord shapes shapes


E║-----------------------|-----------------------|-----------------------|-----------------------|
B║--3--------3-----------|--1--------1-----------|--0--------0-----------|--1--------1-----------|
G║-----0-----------0-----|-----0-----------0-----|-----0-----------0-----|-----2-----------2-----|
D║--------0-----------0--|--------2-----------2--|--------0-----------0--|--------0-----------0--|
A║-----------------------|-----------------------|-----------------------|-----------------------|
E║--3-----------3--------|--3-----------3--------|--3-----------3--------|--2-----------2--------|

....1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+..1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+ ..1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+..1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+.
_________________________________________
|1st time only
E|-----------------------|-----------------------|-----------------------|-----------------------║
B|--0--------0-----------|--1--------1-----------|--3--------3-----------|--3--------3-----------║
G|-----0-----------0-----|-----0-----------0-----|-----0-----------0-----|-----2-----------2-----║
D|--------0-----------0--|--------2-----------2--|--------0-----------0--|--------0-----------0--║
A|-----------------------|-----------------------|-----------------------|-----------------------║
E|--3-----------3--------|--3-----------3--------|--3-----------3--------|--2-----------2--------║


....1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+..1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+ ..1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+..1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+.

Repeat the first six bars then a change of picking pattern and in the last bar your 3rd finger picks the 1st string, and your thumb picks the 3rd. Three G notes on the trot makes a musical full stop.

_____________________________________________
|2nd time
E|-----------------------|-----------3-----------║
B|--3-----------1--------|--0--------------------║
G|-----------------------|-----0--------------0t-║
D|--------0-----------0--|--------0--------------║
A|-----------------------|-----------------------║
E|--3-----------2--------|--3-----------3--------║


....1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+..1..+..2..+..3..+..4..+

NOTE Format error I can't correct is the First time mark should be over bars 7 and 8
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