Condenser mic recommendations

[wailin...]

Originally Posted by moon

Your clip sounds not too bad I can definitely hear some nice guitars in there - and playing.

It's difficult to describe, but the thing that really stands out for me in a high quality audio capture is a sense of "solidness" in the sound, and that's lacking in the clip. I know what I think is to blame but I'm sure Doug's got lots of good advice so let's wait and see where we get to.

I agree, thats exactly what is lacking, solidness. Would love to know what you think the issue is!

[wailin...]

Originally Posted by Bob1131

Wailin, I'm sure Doug will address what he hears in your recording so I won't comment on that. However, with regards to SoundCloud, they stream at 128Kbps so, if your file is at a higher rate than 128Kbps then the result is that phasey/fuzzy sound you are getting. I recommend you try "Box.com" which is a free file hosting service where you can upload any rate and it will stream just the way it should...or....zip your MP3 down to 128Kbps before uploading to SoundCloud.

Thanks Bob, I uploaded the same sample with box.com and it doesn't have the phase issues. Doesn't sound much better though!

[Bob1131]

The link for your Box.com file brings me to the account sign in page.

To obtain the link to your file, sign in to your account and go to the folder where you have the file. To the right of the file name should be an icon that reads "Share." When you click on the icon copy the link that pops up (it should already be highlighted in yellow/brown). That is the link to paste here.

[Doug Young]

Yeah, these are actually pretty nice tracks! Soundcloud can take any mic and make it sound like a cheap transistor radio :-), but I downloaded the original, which sounds much better. But I hear what you mean with the brittleness.

I assume these weren't all from the same exact mic setup? They're similar, but there seem to be some slight differences in stereo image. Could just be how you sat, or the guitar changes. It's also interesting that the strumming examples seem to emphasize the brittleness aspect, while the fingerpicking is boomy and muddy without enough highs. Maybe the brittleness is coming from your pick? I'm not surprised that strumming needs a bit different mic placement than fingerpicking. Maybe back the mics up a tad on the fingerpicking to eliminate the boom, and perhaps move the mics to be aimed a *little* more in toward the soundhole for the strumming.

Are you doing anything with the mix either while tracking, or later? I ask because the stereo image doesn't quite look like typical 12th fret/bridge mic placement. If you're doing any kind of collapsing or panning, you may be introducing phase issues which can contribute to a thin sound and/or to a boomy sound.

Funny, to me, the sound gets much better as the track goes on. The last segment (#6) sounds quite good to me, while #1 makes me say, yeah, something needs to be improved here.

The later examples sound close enough to me to add a little EQ to taste and call them spot on. Even the boomy fingerpicking - cut a few db of low end, and it sounds like a dread being fingerpicked to me.

Incidently, you could record a little hotter. Your peaks are -13 db, and your average level is -33. Not a huge deal, but I'd go for peaks around -6 or so. You also have some room noise. Computer?

but all in all, this is a pretty decent sound. You might get a bit smoother sound with better mics, or you might not. You're at least in the ballpark to where it's a bunch of little tweaks (technique, gear, or both) that will inch you to the next level.

[wailin...]

Originally Posted by Bob1131

The link for your Box.com file brings me to the account sign in page.

To obtain the link to your file, sign in to your account and go to the folder where you have the file. To the right of the file name should be an icon that reads "Share." When you click on the icon copy the link that pops up (it should already be highlighted in yellow/brown). That is the link to paste here.

Ok I think it should give you the correct link now.

[wailin...]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Yeah, these are actually pretty nice tracks! Soundcloud can take any mic and make it sound like a cheap transistor radio :-), but I downloaded the original, which sounds much better. But I hear what you mean with the brittleness.

I assume these weren't all from the same exact mic setup? They're similar, but there seem to be some slight differences in stereo image. Could just be how you sat, or the guitar changes. It's also interesting that the strumming examples seem to emphasize the brittleness aspect, while the fingerpicking is boomy and muddy without enough highs. Maybe the brittleness is coming from your pick? I'm not surprised that strumming needs a bit different mic placement than fingerpicking. Maybe back the mics up a tad on the fingerpicking to eliminate the boom, and perhaps move the mics to be aimed a *little* more in toward the soundhole for the strumming.

Are you doing anything with the mix either while tracking, or later? I ask because the stereo image doesn't quite look like typical 12th fret/bridge mic placement. If you're doing any kind of collapsing or panning, you may be introducing phase issues which can contribute to a thin sound and/or to a boomy sound.

Funny, to me, the sound gets much better as the track goes on. The last segment (#6) sounds quite good to me, while #1 makes me say, yeah, something needs to be improved here.

The later examples sound close enough to me to add a little EQ to taste and call them spot on. Even the boomy fingerpicking - cut a few db of low end, and it sounds like a dread being fingerpicked to me.

Incidently, you could record a little hotter. Your peaks are -13 db, and your average level is -33. Not a huge deal, but I'd go for peaks around -6 or so. You also have some room noise. Computer?

but all in all, this is a pretty decent sound. You might get a bit smoother sound with better mics, or you might not. You're at least in the ballpark to where it's a bunch of little tweaks (technique, gear, or both) that will inch you to the next level.

Doug, I panned the inputs hard left and right prior to recording and left them that way throughout. It is in fact all one take, with same mic positions etc, i just paused the recording while changing guitar. There is definitely room noise, the fan of the laptop maybe, but it was also raining outside on the day so could be that also.

The pick I use is brittle, which i prefer for a more snappy attack. When you say record hotter, do you mean crank up the volume on the interface a bit more? In this case I had the rhode volume on input 1 at about 4 while the t.bone on input 2 was between 5 and 6 or a bit more to make them both at the same level.

I think my whole issue may be in the panning and rendering part rather than the mic positions etc, as i said, I am only starting out in home recording and have a lot to learn. Really appreciate the help and advice, thanks alot

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by wailin...

The pick I use is brittle, which i prefer for a more snappy attack.

So that may be the source of the brittleness! You may just be actually hearing how your guitar sounds out front, and not liking that pick sound as much as you think you do. Some people even find they do things differently for recording, different strings, different picks, different guitars, to get a sound they like on recording, which may or may not match the sound you like in person. But you know, it's all a matter of taste. If you had this picking sound in a mix with other instruments, it might be exactly what you want.

When you say record hotter, do you mean crank up the volume on the interface a bit more?

Right, you need to be able to monitor the levels being recorded, not just knob settings. What are you recording with? Some kind of computer software, I assume. You have a VU meter that you can monitor? Or can you see the waveform on the tracks?

I think my whole issue may be in the panning and rendering part rather than the mic positions etc

Not sure what you mean by rendering. Mixing? As far as panning, I'd keep them panned hard right and left. Odd, tho, what I see when I look at your tracks with some analysis tools isn't as separated as I'd expect to see with your mic setup. Not sure what to suggest there. You actually have a nice stereo balance, so it's not a problem, it just made me think you might be adjusting the panning in the mix.

[wailin...]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

So that may be the source of the brittleness! You may just be actually hearing how your guitar sounds out front, and not liking that pick sound as much as you think you do. Some people even find they do things differently for recording, different strings, different picks, different guitars, to get a sound they like on recording, which may or may not match the sound you like in person. But you know, it's all a matter of taste. If you had this picking sound in a mix with other instruments, it might be exactly what you want.



Right, you need to be able to monitor the levels being recorded, not just knob settings. What are you recording with? Some kind of computer software, I assume. You have a VU meter that you can monitor? Or can you see the waveform on the tracks?




Not sure what you mean by rendering. Mixing? As far as panning, I'd keep them panned hard right and left. Odd, tho, what I see when I look at your tracks with some analysis tools isn't as separated as I'd expect to see with your mic setup. Not sure what to suggest there. You actually have a nice stereo balance, so it's not a problem, it just made me think you might be adjusting the panning in the mix.

I use Reaper software and there is a meter on each track showing sound level. So what i meant by the knob settings was at those settings, both tracks had the same level. The rhode is obviously more sensitive because it requires less volume than the t.bone to get the same level. If I used the x/y method with the 2 t.bones rather then the set up i use i might get better results?

I will use a softer pick and see if it lessens the brittleness, it does make sense though.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by wailin...

I use Reaper software and there is a meter on each track showing sound level. So what i meant by the knob settings was at those settings, both tracks had the same level.

You did a great job of that, the sides are very balanced. but you can bring both of them up a bit. 0 DB is the loudest you can get with digital, above that you will clip. That should correspond to your meters hitting the peak, and probably showing red or something. Aiming for peaks around -6db (hopefully your Reaper meters have some markings on them) will make your tracks roughly twice as loud as they are now, and still leave plenty of headroom.

If I used the x/y method with the 2 t.bones rather then the set up i use i might get better results?

You'll get different results :-) You might like it better, or might not. It will give you a different stereo image, and perhaps a slightly different tone, even if just from the different mic positions.