Martin OM Authentic vs. Collings Bourgeois etc. Owners?

[cabphoto]

Hi There-

Trying to get feedback from owners or those who know more about the Martin Authentic OM vs. comparable Collings and Bourgeois etc.. I own a Bourgeois OM and looking to add another OM.

I'm wondering about overall opinion from people with experience owning the major boutique brand OMs and who have also owned the Martin OM Authentic. What's your opinion on how they compare or do you prefer one?

Also has there been any issues with the no truss rod necks on the Authentics?

Thank you

[Kenbike]

I own a Martin custom shop OM Torrified Spurce top, Guatemala back and sides.
And a Bourgeois OM Torrified Spruce top ans quilted mahogany.
I really enjoy both and feel they are different enough you would find uses for both.
If keeping only one it would be the Bourgeois, higher fit and finish and much more of a cannon.

[ripdotcom]

I had an OM-18A , I have not played a Bourgeois OM in some years but I always remember comparing them to the Martin OM-18V . I kept my Vintage series 18 in lieu of the authentic series, but this was more a Sitka Vs Adirondack issue and I am not a super big fan of sunburst,vintageburst, I really dont like most flavors of starburst except maybe lemon. The OM-18A sounds quite spectacular and of course has the "Martin Sound" that is so often spoken of. Also , without knowing the specs on the Bourgeois OM ( I am assuming Adi/Hog) It would be difficult to say what the difference would be if much (all things being equal). Perhaps you should indeed consider a Martin OM but with different specifications (Top B&S) This way it less of a comparison of similar things but a guarantee of a much different tone. Regarding the missing truss rod, I doubt much trouble would come from it, especially from light strings (12-52/53), The neck is quite sturdy, I have the same Authentic/Barrel and heel on my Carpathian/Bubinga Martin OM Custom Shop (Extremely comfortable). I have only owned a handful of boutique guitars but they were all that traditional martin design and in my opinion, trying to do something similar, the same or better than Martin, more often than not, I find similarities that can be appreciated but more often found in higher end martins. I realize you were requesting information from predominantly boutique owners, I thought I might simply share what the other side of that fence hears.

[devellis]

I have a Martin OM-18A and a Collings OM-1A that was a prototype for their Traditional series. Love them both. It really comes down to a matter of personal preference. I lean toward the Collings but not with any conviction that it's fundamentally the superior guitar. I just have a slight preference for it. It's a fantastic guitar that does everything I'd want an OM to do in spectacular fashion. But then, much the same can be said for the Authentic. They're not the same. But they're just about equally good to my ears and hands.

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by cabphoto

Hi There-

Trying to get feedback from owners or those who know more about the Martin Authentic OM vs. comparable Collings and Bourgeois etc.. I own a Bourgeois OM and looking to add another OM

Also has there been any issues with the no truss rod necks on the Authentics?

Thank you

This are are obviously fine guitars. Generally people have a brand preference between these makers; not necessarily a reflection of a quality comparison. Starting with a Bourgeois, I would imagine you're going to have to look for a different tone rather than a comparison (which shows my bias).

I had an Authentic with neck issues. My excellent luthier thought it could be easily fixed with a truss rod adjustment. Instead it went back to Martin for a repair that took 5 months. It was done under warranty.

Most people have no problems, but I agree that it's something to think about.

[MGSRobinson]

Having played/demo’d/sold many of each over the years, I’d make the following brief generalizations on each maker’s OM model (regardless of wood combo)*:

Martin Authentic- Scooped, vintage, reverby tone, with a lot of air and smooth, layered overtones. They really do have a deep, old sound.

Collings- Very balanced and warm tone. Great note separation. Overtones that shimmer without spilling over while you play. Very controlled.

Bourgeois- Strong, powerful mids that let you make a bold statement with a few notes. Big, wide overtones. Dynamic, quiet-to-loud, quick sound.

*Please take this with a huge block of salt. Every guitar is different, after all. I just tried to reel off the first things that came to mind.

PS, As far as the truss rod goes, I’d only consider it if you’re picky about setup. It is easier to dial in the perfect setup with the Collings or Bourgeois due to their design.

[Tony Burns]

Might be nice to have a different make -maybe just look at Martin or Collings -
The only OM I have is a '06 OM28v ( vintage series ) which i love -
and ive played some pretty nice Collings - Honestly im not a Bourgeois fan
but I respect the make ( like i do with Taylor )
Have fun doing it !

[AMW]

Authentics are about our favorite thing coming out of the Martin shop these days. Rich, open sound right out of the box, usually. They seem to give the true-blue Martin fan exactly what they're looking for, sound-wise, and quality control is very good.

No truss rod and cut-through (vs drop in) saddle mean that to get a very specific set up, better to have a qualified luthier involved.

Collings instruments are built to a pretty much perfect standard, but not everyone loves their more modern, mid-forward tone. Even the Traditional series, which is a good bit warmer by comparison, is going to sound "hotter" than the average Martin, which will have a scooped midrange and more pronounced bass. The Collings get a lot better after a few months of play time, the bass flowers yet you retain the crisp mids and highs.

Quality-wise, you're fine either way, except in very unusual cases, and both companies will stand behind their new instruments in a big way.

[howthewestwas1]

This may be helpful to you. I posted earlier this week a comparison between my Collings OM1 short scale and my new Martin 000-18 Authentic. Both are short scale and the comparison is probably an analogous to the one posed in your original post. There's a brief video clip and several statements from myself and others that offer insight to the two models. In general, I would agree with everything that AMW described above

Here is the thread

On page 2 I briefly mention my experience with Bourgeois.

For what it's worth my 000-18 authentic is 11 years old and the neck/setup/specs are spot on the typical 3/2 factory specs. Neck seems rather sturdy.

Best of luck in your tone quest!

[cabphoto]

Originally Posted by AMW

Authentics are about our favorite thing coming out of the Martin shop these days. Rich, open sound right out of the box, usually. They seem to give the true-blue Martin fan exactly what they're looking for, sound-wise, and quality control is very good.



No truss rod and cut-through (vs drop in) saddle mean that to get a very specific set up, better to have a qualified luthier involved.



Collings instruments are built to a pretty much perfect standard, but not everyone loves their more modern, mid-forward tone. Even the Traditional series, which is a good bit warmer by comparison, is going to sound "hotter" than the average Martin, which will have a scooped midrange and more pronounced bass. The Collings get a lot better after a few months of play time, the bass flowers yet you retain the crisp mids and highs.



Quality-wise, you're fine either way, except in very unusual cases, and both companies will stand behind their new instruments in a big way.

Thank you for responding. I consider you folks the authority. I own a Bourgeois vintage OM in EIR with the 25 scale length. This guitar ,my first guitar, is absolutely wonderful though I think it may be on the quieter side. But over all I’m extremely pleased.

I am very very interested in finding something as versatile but maybe even with an Adee trick or 2 up it’s sleeve if possible. The hard part is that this guitar is so versatile it really does everything I know how to do well. I am very picky about fit and finish as I don’t see any reason for flaw in something at this price point. One reason why I automatically think Collings.

I am wondering how much I would mind the 3/16 string spacing of say an om1 since I have the 5/16 in Bourgeois I am leaner by toward mahogany as to change it up but I do love a Madagascar or Maybe cocobolo if it adds any extra sweetness without too much weight.

I know the traditional series offer the 5/16 but with thicker neck profiles.

Of course there is always deep body options but saw the 0001 ss cut away you have and admit I am intrigued as I do want 14 Fret access but wondering if I want to go shorter in scale to what I have. I love hearing how light weight it is.

I know he answer to all this is play some guitars but it may shock you as to how impossible it is in Los Angeles of all places to get a few nice acoustics in the same store. If you find a Collings here there is one and almost certainly not another comparable brand to compare to. I am planing a trip to see you or music emporium as I’ve heard nightmares about Eddies which is unfortunate I won't travel across country to find a guitar and be discouraged from playing a few.

Anyhow your response to my post is encouraging and I am very curious as to what guitar Steve ,I think is your luthier there, plays himself. Thanks for your time.

[brencat]

Originally Posted by cabphoto

Hi There-

Trying to get feedback from owners or those who know more about the Martin Authentic OM vs. comparable Collings and Bourgeois etc.. I own a Bourgeois OM and looking to add another OM.

I'm wondering about overall opinion from people with experience owning the major boutique brand OMs and who have also owned the Martin OM Authentic. What's your opinion on how they compare or do you prefer one?

Also has there been any issues with the no truss rod necks on the Authentics?

Thank you

Hi cp.

I have owned the following OMs and still own the last 2 bolded:

Collings OM1 standard (Sitka/Hog)
Collings OM1 Walnut (Sitka/Walnut)
Martin OM-28 Authentic
Santa Cruz German/EIR OM
Santa Cruz OM/PW Cedar/EIR short scale
Goodall TBROM (Adi/Brazilian)

I've also played plenty of other Collings OM and Santa Cruz OM variants, but my experience with Bourgeois is limited to a Vintage OM that I recall being modestly better than a Martin OM-28 standard but with a neck that was too shallow.

Collings OMs are very loud, with a hot midrange, enhanced clarity, and piano like tone, pretty much the opposite of the Martin vintage voice (though not quite Taylor-tone modern). They were annoyingly sensitive to less than perfect technique, and lacked the bass response I was used to from Martin guitars. They excelled at flatpicking and fingerstyle, not so much for strumming (too much articulation, tone not warm enough or blended enough for my liking).

The Martin OM-28 Authentic was an itch I needed to scratch. After 6 months, I sold the guitar. Never lived up to my expectations and I also had some playability issues with the neck (I'm very picky about neck profiles). Very dry, pure, and thick sound, and the bass response was good. Out of the above guitars I've owned, this one would rank DEAD LAST.

Santa Cruz German OM. By all accounts this was a terrific guitar, if a little stiff when brand new. Unbelievable volume, great bass, perfect fit and finish. But the tone was too modern sounding for me, as I play mostly bluegrass fiddle tunes. I've played a bunch of SC OMs in different wood combos and find they all sound somewhat similar. The tone is kind of right in the middle of vintage and modern voicing...a little too pretty and sophisticated. I prefer my guitars with a little bit of attitude.

Santa Cruz OM/PW Cedar/EIR short scale. Still own this one, a rare custom I bought from Acoustic Vibes music. Super easy and forgiving to play, with a darker tonality. Great bass response, vintage Martin-like voicing, and an extended 'fuzzy' sustain from the Cedar top. Perfect fit and finish and a nice medium/fat soft-v neck (thicker than the regular SC OM neck). Strums great, flatpicks great, and I haven't been able to overdrive it. Hoover and the gang really braced this one well. Despite the custom options, it is still an OM/PW, and eschews balance in favor of a bass bias, in the Martin tradition. Awesome instrument!

Goodall TBROM (Brazilian TROM). The Alpha and the Omega. The first and the last. The best small bodied acoustic I have EVER played or owned by any builder, anywhere. Perfect fat-C/D shaped neck with "Goldilocks" 2 1/4" string spacing (1 3/4 nut). Strums, flatpicks, and fingerstyles effortlessly. Monster bass response is very close to dread-like. Super responsive Adi top (feels and plays like broken-in Sitka). Of the boutiques mentioned above, the TROM sounds the closest to a Martin dread (it's part of their Traditional (TR) Series. The non-TR Goodalls are more Collings-like). I will own this one until I can't play guitar any longer.

I know this was long winded, but I hope it was helpful. Good luck in your search.

[cabphoto]

Originally Posted by brencat

Hi cp.

I have owned the following OMs and still own the last 2 bolded:

Collings OM1 standard (Sitka/Hog)
Collings OM1 Walnut (Sitka/Walnut)
Martin OM-28 Authentic
Santa Cruz German/EIR OM
Santa Cruz OM/PW Cedar/EIR short scale
Goodall TBROM (Adi/Brazilian)

I've also played plenty of other Collings OM and Santa Cruz OM variants, but my experience with Bourgeois is limited to a Vintage OM that I recall being modestly better than a Martin OM-28 standard but with a neck that was too shallow.

Collings OMs are very loud, with a hot midrange, enhanced clarity, and piano like tone, pretty much the opposite of the Martin vintage voice (though not quite Taylor-tone modern). They were annoyingly sensitive to less than perfect technique, and lacked the bass response I was used to from Martin guitars. They excelled at flatpicking and fingerstyle, not so much for strumming (too much articulation, tone not warm enough or blended enough for my liking).

The Martin OM-28 Authentic was an itch I needed to scratch. After 6 months, I sold the guitar. Never lived up to my expectations and I also had some playability issues with the neck (I'm very picky about neck profiles). Very dry, pure, and thick sound, and the bass response was good. Out of the above guitars I've owned, this one would rank DEAD LAST.

Santa Cruz German OM. By all accounts this was a terrific guitar, if a little stiff when brand new. Unbelievable volume, great bass, perfect fit and finish. But the tone was too modern sounding for me, as I play mostly bluegrass fiddle tunes. I've played a bunch of SC OMs in different wood combos and find they all sound somewhat similar. The tone is kind of right in the middle of vintage and modern voicing...a little too pretty and sophisticated. I prefer my guitars with a little bit of attitude.

Santa Cruz OM/PW Cedar/EIR short scale. Still own this one, a rare custom I bought from Acoustic Vibes music. Super easy and forgiving to play, with a darker tonality. Great bass response, vintage Martin-like voicing, and an extended 'fuzzy' sustain from the Cedar top. Perfect fit and finish and a nice medium/fat soft-v neck (thicker than the regular SC OM neck). Strums great, flatpicks great, and I haven't been able to overdrive it. Hoover and the gang really braced this one well. Despite the custom options, it is still an OM/PW, and eschews balance in favor of a bass bias, in the Martin tradition. Awesome instrument!

Goodall TBROM (Brazilian TROM). The Alpha and the Omega. The first and the last. The best small bodied acoustic I have EVER played or owned by any builder, anywhere. Perfect fat-C/D shaped neck with "Goldilocks" 2 1/4" string spacing (1 3/4 nut). Strums, flatpicks, and fingerstyles effortlessly. Monster bass response is very close to dread-like. Super responsive Adi top (feels and plays like broken-in Sitka). Of the boutiques mentioned above, the TROM sounds the closest to a Martin dread (it's part of their Traditional (TR) Series. The non-TR Goodalls are more Collings-like). I will own this one until I can't play guitar any longer.

I know this was long winded, but I hope it was helpful. Good luck in your search.

Thank you very much for your response. I am definitely considering a couple of SC guitars. I have played on Goodall and remember it being very easy to play. They just always seem to be a couple of grand more than the others with comparable specs and of course the Brazilian puts it out of reach.

You were not long winded at all. I am familiar if only over the net with all the different models from the bigger boutique builders so thoroughness in describing what you like don’t like is very helpful to someone without the guitar in his hands. Thanks again.

Chris

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by AMW

Authentics are about our favorite thing coming out of the Martin shop these days. Rich, open sound right out of the box, usually. They seem to give the true-blue Martin fan exactly what they're looking for, sound-wise, and quality control is very good.

No truss rod and cut-through (vs drop in) saddle mean that to get a very specific set up, better to have a qualified luthier involved.

Collings instruments are built to a pretty much perfect standard, but not everyone loves their more modern, mid-forward tone. Even the Traditional series, which is a good bit warmer by comparison, is going to sound "hotter" than the average Martin, which will have a scooped midrange and more pronounced bass. The Collings get a lot better after a few months of play time, the bass flowers yet you retain the crisp mids and highs.

Quality-wise, you're fine either way, except in very unusual cases, and both companies will stand behind their new instruments in a big way.

Would you care to add thoughts on Bourgeois since you deal them as well? It would be great to hear from a dealer - seems like you'd have some objectivity on the topic.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by brencat

Hi cp.

I have owned the following OMs and still own the last 2 bolded:

Collings OM1 standard (Sitka/Hog)
Collings OM1 Walnut (Sitka/Walnut)
Martin OM-28 Authentic
Santa Cruz German/EIR OM
Santa Cruz OM/PW Cedar/EIR short scale
Goodall TBROM (Adi/Brazilian)



Goodall TBROM (Brazilian TROM). The Alpha and the Omega. The first and the last. The best small bodied acoustic I have EVER played or owned by any builder, anywhere. Perfect fat-C/D shaped neck with "Goldilocks" 2 1/4" string spacing (1 3/4 nut). Strums, flatpicks, and fingerstyles effortlessly. Monster bass response is very close to dread-like. Super responsive Adi top (feels and plays like broken-in Sitka). Of the boutiques mentioned above, the TROM sounds the closest to a Martin dread (it's part of their Traditional (TR) Series. The non-TR Goodalls are more Collings-like). I will own this one until I can't play guitar any longer.

I know this was long winded, but I hope it was helpful. Good luck in your search.

Thanks for your extensive review - that was super helpful for us OM fantastics. I'm very intrigued by the Goodall - I've only ever known them as very overtoney/european sound. Is there traditional OM more fundamental in sound? Goodall is truly one of the great luthiers and I'd be very intrigued by his OM if it is more traditional sounding.

[thumblead]

I own three Authentics right now. Two of them are OMs, an -18A and a -28A. I've been on a quest for the perfect OM for me for a few years now and have also had Collings and Santa Cruz during that time.

They're all comparable as boutique-level instruments. The two Authentics I have sound like Martins and the Collings and Santa Cruz OMs did not; they instead sounded like their builder as they should. I've tended to prefer the Authentics because they have the same immediate response as a lot of Collings I've played but add in that bassier Martin tone which I prefer to the Collings tone. The Authentic OMs are very, very dry though, even the -28A I have. They're excellent for fingerstyle but considerably less versatile for my music than the Collings and Santa Cruz models I've owned.

I haven't had any problems with the Authentic necks; knock on wood. In general I prefer Santa Cruz standard necks followed by the Collings. The -28A has the closest neck to those. The -18A is a fuller neck, but it's still quite playable by me even as I prefer the others.