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Old 05-05-2022, 05:45 PM
J Patrick J Patrick is offline
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Default Build list/pricing

…..as custom builders and shops become more popular does it naturally follow that when your build slot comes up you will be expected to pay what the current price is?…..or would you expect to pay the price that the builder was charging at the time you placed your deposit?…….I’m just curious about what buyers expect and what most builders do…..

…I’m thinking it’s reasonable to expect to pay the price that the builder is currently charging and that getting on the list does not lock in the price at that time…..but…should a buyer be expected to forfeit their non refundable deposit if they do not want to pay the current price if it’s significantly higher than it was when the deposit was placed?….

….who has any experience or thoughts?…
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Old 05-05-2022, 05:52 PM
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Every time I've done a custom, the price and appointments were locked in at the time of the agreement/deposit.
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Old 05-05-2022, 06:17 PM
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warfrat73 warfrat73 is offline
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I'd expect that to be clearly and explicitly agreed upon when the deposit is made, or at least clearly expressed on the price list.

Either way is fine, as long as both parties agree. I know some builders that have very long queues are doing the pay the deposit now, but pay the price later thing, which makes sense if your wait list is more than a couple of years.

There was a not too long ago (but not terribly recent) thread about this regarding Kathy Wingert or Kim Walker, or one of those builders that I get confused but whose guitars I'll never own, but whose wait list is the better part of a decade.
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Old 05-05-2022, 06:21 PM
pagedr pagedr is offline
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Yeah I've never had an acoustic build done but I've had a few electrics built over the years and the final price has always been locked in at the time of deposit, and I imagine it's similar with acoustics. I'm sure there are instances of luthiers raising the price at build time, though probably not a great business practice unless there are good/obvious reasons for doing so (i.e. buyer decides they want to upgrade tone woods).
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Old 05-05-2022, 06:22 PM
sinistral sinistral is offline
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I agree with the above posts. Something of variation on the theme, but I placed a deposit on a guitar in order to lock in the price before an announced price increase. The builder was explicit in stating that orders placed before the price increase would lock in the pre-increase price.
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Old 05-05-2022, 06:48 PM
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Every custom I have ordered has been charged the price at the time of the order. I would not do it any other way. It is sort of a trade off for waiting 2-3 years.
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Old 05-05-2022, 07:00 PM
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The locked in price is the only way I've done it, but if the wait is pushing a decade I can see a good case to be made that the price determined based on the market/economy at the time of the build so that the builder isn't losing money.

If the builds are in such high demand that they can bear such a long wait, then it would stand to reason that they can stand a bit of variability in price.

I would think that in that case, though, it would be more a right of first refusal than a non-refundable deposit.
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Old 05-05-2022, 07:27 PM
volman volman is offline
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I have a build slot in 2025 with a very popular luthier who's prices have been rising quite rapidly the last five years or so and I was sent a price list for 2025 when I secured the slot. I anticipate the base price being higher than what I'm paying by the time my build starts...as I'm sure the guitars being built now are at a lower cost than the currently listed base. I wouldn't put a deposit down with a builder who can't lock in a price right now.
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Old 05-05-2022, 09:33 PM
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It’s pretty rare, in my experience, for builders to charge a price that varies with time. Kim Walker is one of the few I’m aware of. His situation is rather unusual in that he can’t even tell you what the price will be when your name finally comes up. That’s not something I’d be comfortable with.

All builders I have worked with fix a price at the time of the build. I wouldn’t do it any other way.
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Old 05-06-2022, 06:31 AM
FrankCousins FrankCousins is offline
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It should be really simple, if you have a long order list (2-5 years) then the price you pay for an order today should already take into account the anticipated costs down the line at time of construction. If the luthiers reputation has increased and their instruments command more value, then that should be to the buyers advantage IHMO, a reward for the faith they have placed in said builder... having said that if the waiting list is already 2-5 years, the reputation is likely to be considerably higher already ;-)

I think it was Kevin Ryan who said he actually put his prices up significantly in an attempt to control his waiting list which was getting very long... only it had the opposite effect!
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Old 05-06-2022, 06:34 AM
FrankCousins FrankCousins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volman View Post
I have a build slot in 2025 with a very popular luthier who's prices have been rising quite rapidly the last five years or so and I was sent a price list for 2025 when I secured the slot. I anticipate the base price being higher than what I'm paying by the time my build starts...as I'm sure the guitars being built now are at a lower cost than the currently listed base. I wouldn't put a deposit down with a builder who can't lock in a price right now.
Yep agreed. If you take delivery today, the price will be that from about 2018/19. I have a second commission with a luthier for 2023, an order place 12 month after my first and there was a significant increase - but a fair reflection of growing reputation and value of instruments being made. Love the transparency tshi provides
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Old 05-06-2022, 12:18 PM
fregly fregly is offline
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I suspect you are under a contract unless the luthier states he can raise prices explicitly in writing. If somebody tried that with me I would tell them to go jump in the lake, and get my pound of flesh in bad word of mouth online until I got my deposit back.
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Old 05-06-2022, 12:51 PM
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This is an interesting question. I put a deposit down on a guitar in 2017, with a 3 year waiting list. We're now at 5&1/2 years and still waiting. The luthier said it was because he moved his shop, but instagram, TNAG, and DG continue to show new guitars churning out of his shop in that time period...and his prices have gone up substantially and I'm sure he would much rather make a new order at a higher commission than an old one. I'm not sure I would even want to pay his new commission. I even paid extra for the B&S because he used up all his stash even though he told me not too worry when he initially showed me the choices...so, have largely given up, since the model I wanted he no longer offers...says he is satisfied with the other models he offers...so, I chalk it up towards supporting the luthier community... I was thinking of getting him to donate the B&S to another luthier!!
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Old 05-06-2022, 01:58 PM
fregly fregly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck7 View Post
This is an interesting question. I put a deposit down on a guitar in 2017, with a 3 year waiting list. We're now at 5&1/2 years and still waiting. The luthier said it was because he moved his shop, but instagram, TNAG, and DG continue to show new guitars churning out of his shop in that time period...and his prices have gone up substantially and I'm sure he would much rather make a new order at a higher commission than an old one. I'm not sure I would even want to pay his new commission. I even paid extra for the B&S because he used up all his stash even though he told me not too worry when he initially showed me the choices...so, have largely given up, since the model I wanted he no longer offers...says he is satisfied with the other models he offers...so, I chalk it up towards supporting the luthier community... I was thinking of getting him to donate the B&S to another luthier!!
Who is it? PM me.

Last edited by fregly; 05-06-2022 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 05-06-2022, 02:00 PM
Dogma Dogma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck7 View Post
This is an interesting question. I put a deposit down on a guitar in 2017, with a 3 year waiting list. We're now at 5&1/2 years and still waiting. The luthier said it was because he moved his shop, but instagram, TNAG, and DG continue to show new guitars churning out of his shop in that time period...and his prices have gone up substantially and I'm sure he would much rather make a new order at a higher commission than an old one. I'm not sure I would even want to pay his new commission. I even paid extra for the B&S because he used up all his stash even though he told me not too worry when he initially showed me the choices...so, have largely given up, since the model I wanted he no longer offers...says he is satisfied with the other models he offers...so, I chalk it up towards supporting the luthier community... I was thinking of getting him to donate the B&S to another luthier!!
Wow! This being the whole case, I think I'd be using "B&S" differently.

As to the question, my experience with 3 builders has been that I asked the question up front and have been told that my deposit locks in current (at the time of deposit) pricing. Quote, in my case, has always been for the base build because I have yet to have known exactly what I wanted when I made the deposit. If wood or labor prices (or values?) fluctuated during the wait-list time I would not have any way of knowing. My experience has been that once the build gets going, there are opportunities to "upgrade" one's choices, with commensurate pricing implications.

Last edited by Dogma; 05-06-2022 at 03:04 PM.
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