#1
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Build list/pricing
…..as custom builders and shops become more popular does it naturally follow that when your build slot comes up you will be expected to pay what the current price is?…..or would you expect to pay the price that the builder was charging at the time you placed your deposit?…….I’m just curious about what buyers expect and what most builders do…..
…I’m thinking it’s reasonable to expect to pay the price that the builder is currently charging and that getting on the list does not lock in the price at that time…..but…should a buyer be expected to forfeit their non refundable deposit if they do not want to pay the current price if it’s significantly higher than it was when the deposit was placed?…. ….who has any experience or thoughts?…
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...Grasshopper...high is high...low is low....but the middle...lies in between...Master Po |
#2
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Every time I've done a custom, the price and appointments were locked in at the time of the agreement/deposit.
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"One small heart, and a great big soul that's driving" |
#3
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I'd expect that to be clearly and explicitly agreed upon when the deposit is made, or at least clearly expressed on the price list.
Either way is fine, as long as both parties agree. I know some builders that have very long queues are doing the pay the deposit now, but pay the price later thing, which makes sense if your wait list is more than a couple of years. There was a not too long ago (but not terribly recent) thread about this regarding Kathy Wingert or Kim Walker, or one of those builders that I get confused but whose guitars I'll never own, but whose wait list is the better part of a decade.
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"What have I learned but the proper use for several tools" -Gary Snyder Bourgeois DR-A / Bowerman "Working Man's" OM / Martin Custom D-18 (adi & flame) / Martin OM-21 / Northwood M70 MJ / 1970s Sigma DR-7 / Eastman E6D / Flatiron Signature A5 / Silverangel Econo A (Call me Dan) Last edited by warfrat73; 05-05-2022 at 07:01 PM. |
#4
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Yeah I've never had an acoustic build done but I've had a few electrics built over the years and the final price has always been locked in at the time of deposit, and I imagine it's similar with acoustics. I'm sure there are instances of luthiers raising the price at build time, though probably not a great business practice unless there are good/obvious reasons for doing so (i.e. buyer decides they want to upgrade tone woods).
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#5
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I agree with the above posts. Something of variation on the theme, but I placed a deposit on a guitar in order to lock in the price before an announced price increase. The builder was explicit in stating that orders placed before the price increase would lock in the pre-increase price.
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#6
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Every custom I have ordered has been charged the price at the time of the order. I would not do it any other way. It is sort of a trade off for waiting 2-3 years.
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PS. I love guitars! |
#7
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The locked in price is the only way I've done it, but if the wait is pushing a decade I can see a good case to be made that the price determined based on the market/economy at the time of the build so that the builder isn't losing money.
If the builds are in such high demand that they can bear such a long wait, then it would stand to reason that they can stand a bit of variability in price. I would think that in that case, though, it would be more a right of first refusal than a non-refundable deposit.
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"What have I learned but the proper use for several tools" -Gary Snyder Bourgeois DR-A / Bowerman "Working Man's" OM / Martin Custom D-18 (adi & flame) / Martin OM-21 / Northwood M70 MJ / 1970s Sigma DR-7 / Eastman E6D / Flatiron Signature A5 / Silverangel Econo A (Call me Dan) |
#8
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I have a build slot in 2025 with a very popular luthier who's prices have been rising quite rapidly the last five years or so and I was sent a price list for 2025 when I secured the slot. I anticipate the base price being higher than what I'm paying by the time my build starts...as I'm sure the guitars being built now are at a lower cost than the currently listed base. I wouldn't put a deposit down with a builder who can't lock in a price right now.
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Paul Reed Smith McCarty 594 Singlecut Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster Searching for the right Esteban... |
#9
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It’s pretty rare, in my experience, for builders to charge a price that varies with time. Kim Walker is one of the few I’m aware of. His situation is rather unusual in that he can’t even tell you what the price will be when your name finally comes up. That’s not something I’d be comfortable with.
All builders I have worked with fix a price at the time of the build. I wouldn’t do it any other way.
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#10
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It should be really simple, if you have a long order list (2-5 years) then the price you pay for an order today should already take into account the anticipated costs down the line at time of construction. If the luthiers reputation has increased and their instruments command more value, then that should be to the buyers advantage IHMO, a reward for the faith they have placed in said builder... having said that if the waiting list is already 2-5 years, the reputation is likely to be considerably higher already ;-)
I think it was Kevin Ryan who said he actually put his prices up significantly in an attempt to control his waiting list which was getting very long... only it had the opposite effect! |
#11
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Quote:
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#12
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I suspect you are under a contract unless the luthier states he can raise prices explicitly in writing. If somebody tried that with me I would tell them to go jump in the lake, and get my pound of flesh in bad word of mouth online until I got my deposit back.
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#13
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This is an interesting question. I put a deposit down on a guitar in 2017, with a 3 year waiting list. We're now at 5&1/2 years and still waiting. The luthier said it was because he moved his shop, but instagram, TNAG, and DG continue to show new guitars churning out of his shop in that time period...and his prices have gone up substantially and I'm sure he would much rather make a new order at a higher commission than an old one. I'm not sure I would even want to pay his new commission. I even paid extra for the B&S because he used up all his stash even though he told me not too worry when he initially showed me the choices...so, have largely given up, since the model I wanted he no longer offers...says he is satisfied with the other models he offers...so, I chalk it up towards supporting the luthier community... I was thinking of getting him to donate the B&S to another luthier!!
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#14
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Quote:
Last edited by fregly; 05-06-2022 at 02:05 PM. |
#15
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Quote:
As to the question, my experience with 3 builders has been that I asked the question up front and have been told that my deposit locks in current (at the time of deposit) pricing. Quote, in my case, has always been for the base build because I have yet to have known exactly what I wanted when I made the deposit. If wood or labor prices (or values?) fluctuated during the wait-list time I would not have any way of knowing. My experience has been that once the build gets going, there are opportunities to "upgrade" one's choices, with commensurate pricing implications. Last edited by Dogma; 05-06-2022 at 03:04 PM. |